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Google hired union-busting consultants to convince employees “unions suck”
241–250 of 493 posts
Re: Google hired union-busting consultants to convince employees “unions suck”
#242Go figure the top comments on this thread echo how companies talk about unions. “Oh unions can be good but those Americans don’t know their downsides…” Or “Unions are great but it’s awful people can be forced to join them!” I’m just saying Google’s money was well spent.
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Re: Google hired union-busting consultants to convince employees “unions suck”
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
>But a corporation is chartered to make money - we expect it to act accordingly and for the most part companies do make money (when they fail to make money, they cease existing They are supposed to serve a higher purpose than just make money. If you were being equivalently fair to unions you would say that their sole purpose is to take dues. >a lot unions don't really carry out their core function and there are no co…
> Yes, they do, they lose members. But membership is mandatory if there is a union at that corp. A union is like a service they can't ever unsubscribe from without changing jobs. For government work especially, unions can start to take over management functions. So employees end up wanting a second union to protect them from abuses by their main union.
> But membership is mandatory if there is a union at that corp
This is untrue in every state. In some states you have to pay dues even if your aren't a member, but closed shops aren't legal.
Re: Google hired union-busting consultants to convince employees “unions suck”
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> For some reason we hold unions to an incredibly high standard of "no problems, ever" Because they are democratic institutions. They can be held to a no-problems standard because every time a problem occurs then those involved can be sacked and replaced. The level of acceptable corruption is set by the membership. Rules should therefore focus on openness and member participation in leadership selection. Everyone wh…
> I say join the leadership and run the union the way you think it should be run This is like saying if you don't like the gangs in your area you should join them and try to reform them to do social work instead. Why isn't it valid to say you don't like unions and so don't want anything to do with them?
If you don't want anything to do with them you absolutely have the right to go somewhere the union doesn't exist. You do not have the right to ask the union to make your life easier. That's not their job.
Re: Google hired union-busting consultants to convince employees “unions suck”
#245Unions don't suck, Google sucks.
This is a common response across hn for any post related to Google, it's great how you boiled it down to such few words. I just think it's interesting that if anyone posted the equivalent of this on any other topic it would be downvoted. Is this a thoughtful comment? Does it follow the guidelines of this community? I think not. Are you a grown adult or a 2 year old child? We will never know
Re: Google hired union-busting consultants to convince employees “unions suck”
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am very pro-union, but I feel like a part of situation you are describing is because we needs businesses. We don’t necessarily need unions. Without unions, businesses would still be here. Without businesses, where would the unions be? Edit: I would like to reiterate that I am pro-union. I am just saying that unions are optional, but businesses (or the government as some have pointed out) are more necessary from the…
Yeah, I think talking about the benefits of "unions" in the abstract is a little weird because - at least in the US - unions are highly regulated by laws that were written primarily envisioning the model of early-20th-century manual labor. That is to say, unions were designed in a way that fit not just for-profit businesses but very particular types of for-profit businesses. So you need to separate the more conceptua…
Union organizers always want GM style unions.
But really developers would be better off with something along the lines of a trade guild. Something that enforces standards on employers and employees.
Re: Google hired union-busting consultants to convince employees “unions suck”
#247A related topic would be collective bargaining - which is often (but not always) associated with a unionized workplace. If you're a sub-standard employee, you win big through collective bargaining because pay bands will move toward the mean. If however, you are a high-performer, you will likely be under-compensated in a collective bargaining environment because your excess effort will be used to compensate those who…
This is non-sense. There's no rule that says collectively bargained contracts can't include rewards or incentives for higher-performance. In fact, many do.
Look at any professional sports contract. Players usually get bonuses for hitting predetermined stat goals on the field. Look at any teacher contract. Teachers get bonuses for attaining higher education and certifications, or simply taking on leadership roles.
Re: Google hired union-busting consultants to convince employees “unions suck”
#248Re: Google hired union-busting consultants to convince employees “unions suck”
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
>And they often use violence or threat of violence to try to stop this - see their reaction to 'scabbing'. If it's a competition for who has managed the most extreme violence in relation to an industrial dispute in America the prize would go to the manager of a coal mine in west virginia who brought in a private air force to bomb strikers (battle of blair mountain). I somehow doubt youll find a union that has managed…
That was in the 1920s - that's not something I'm legitimately worried about. But it is a routine occurrence to have picket lines in industrial disputes today, and to deliberately harass people who choose to go into work. In the coal mining strikes in the UK in the 80s it got to the point where union members literally killed a taxi driver for taking a worker past a picket line. Google aren't going to kill an Uber driv…
Google would absolutely employ violence to defend its profits if it felt that its profits were seriously under threat and it thought violence was a viable tactic. It isnt. It's very far away from that. These things are a nuisance to them no more.
The united fruit company paid for paramilitaries to assassinate strikers in Central America.
This is a world away from dropping a brick on a taxi because your livelihood is under threat.
Re: Google hired union-busting consultants to convince employees “unions suck”
#250Having worked for both union and non-union employers - it's a mixed bag. Unions have advantages and disadvantages. They are great for worker representation - but that's a double-edged sword. Ideally, unions protects worker's interests. In practice, they often lead to abuse, stagnation and corruption. I've personally witnessed union employees who contributed nothing for years, get perpetually shifted from team to team…
These can all be true things. But could you imagine if we spoke about corporations in this manner? "I've worked for corporations and they are a mixed bag. In practice, they often abuse their employees. I've personally witnessed bosses who contributed nothing for years and just played politics." For some reason we hold unions to an incredibly high standard of "no problems, ever" but this is never used to discourage al…
> For some reason we hold unions to an incredibly high standard of "no problems, ever" but this is never used to discourage all participation in the labor force because employers are often shitty.
No, most people are holding them to reasonable standards. Just like people hold medical doctors to not kill people by their negligence. Some might say it is incredibly high standard as well but I do not think so. I am afraid employers are shitty so union can be shitty is not a great advertisement for unions.
> Unions are democratically controlled worker organizations...
It would interesting to understand why these shining democratic organization don't directly provide work to people. Overall wouldn't it be much better than working for grubby capitalists. May be not in USA but other countries can eliminate the concept of corporations/companies and just simply have unions.