Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired • Hacker News Board

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#241

Post by hdjjhhvvhga » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 9:01 AM UTC

vlovich123 wrote: post #236

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, these are the original data from clinical studies. Now, in real life, a few months later the efficiency has dwindled considerably [0]: > Reports of waning vaccine-induced immunity against COVID-19 have begun to surface. With that, the comparable long-term protection conferred by previous infection with SARS-CoV-2 remains unclear. [0] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v...

"Remains unclear" is very different from "no impact on transmission rates". Here's the follow-up paper from the same group [1] > These results suggest that the vaccine is initially effective in reducing infectiousness of breakthrough infections even with the Delta variant, and that while this protectiveness effect declines with time it can be restored, at least temporarily, with a booster vaccine. The paper you're lo…

> "Remains unclear" is very different from "no impact on transmission rates".

Well, at least within households[0]:

> Research reveals fully vaccinated people are just as likely to pass virus on to those they share a home with

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/28/covid-vaccinat...

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#242

Post by summerlight » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 9:15 AM UTC

artificialLimbs wrote: post #152

kiba wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you have medical exemption, it's just a jab in the arm?

>> ...it's just a jab in the arm Until it isn't. Then what are you going to do? Probably nothing except suffer debilitation for life or death (~20,000 that have been reported to VAERS, so probably substantially more). https://brandnewtube.com/watch/full-hearings-ron-johnson-039... Edit: spllng

Most of the case (>99.9%), it's very likely just a temporal correlation rather than real causation. Even without vaccine, thousands of healthy people die every day without any prior sign and vaccine doesn't change that.

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#243

Post by summerlight » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 9:21 AM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #146

chrisseaton wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> violate their rights Can you talk us through exactly which rights you think are being violated?

> Can you talk us through exactly which rights you think are being violated? I recall the left has been very vocal about "my body my right" when it came to some different kind of issue. Funny that the standards don't hold very much.

Abortion is not even remotely comparable to this particular issue since it doesn't harm anyone but the real stakeholders. Not getting vaccine threaten everyone around you. Probably it's more comparable to the idiom "your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins".

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#244

Post by native_samples » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 9:34 AM UTC

acdha wrote: post #227

klipklop wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you think his arguments are silly, it would be more effective to use facts and data to destroy his argument instead of a ad hominem ("you don't understand") attack on his intelligence. Your approach of dismissing and saying you are taking your ball and going home is not really a convincing counter-argument.

I agree in the abstract but I have seen nothing in his posting history which suggests he's interested in rationally evaluating this or has made an effort to understand what he's pasting any better than the people he copied it from.

That's just another empty insult. Anyway, consider that half of the reason people debate or take positions on forums isn't to directly convince just the person they're talking to, it's to convince people who are watching. Right now you aren't convincing people who are watching.

Also, really, I should be convincible. A few years ago I was quite like you. I even occasionally used anti-vaxx as a slur, a shorthand for crazy illogical conspiracy theorist, although I'm now ashamed to admit it. I didn't ever review their arguments because I already "knew" they were wrong. Well, and because it was irrelevant as there were no vaccines I was being asked to take. Things changed a lot in just two years.

Moreover, like many people on this forum, I'm a specialist who owes my position and status in society to expertise. I don't like the idea that huge numbers of specialized experts appear to be in the grip of some sort of mass hysteria or collectivist ideology in which the downsides of massive social interventions are simply taboo to discuss. That degrades respect for all kinds of specialism and expertise, in all fields, even if not equally.

Really the most concerning and effective anti-vaxx propaganda, as you put it, is exactly the sort of responses you're posting now. Not "here's evidence that point X is wrong" but rather, almost boastful proclamations that they aren't going to engage in the discussion at all because they are too intellectually pure to do so. It looks and sounds like a sort of fanaticism.

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#245

Post by native_samples » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 9:39 AM UTC

acdha wrote: post #203

native_samples wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for a while now. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7... "In the UK it was described that secondary attack rates among household contacts exposed to fully vaccinated index cases was similar to household contacts exposed to unvaccinated index cases (25% for vaccinated vs 23% for unvaccinated)." No difference in infectiousness. And with it, no logical justification for mandates. But this is…

That's not incompatible with my point: vaccines are not 100% protection, as medical professional warned us about since before the vaccines were deployed. Household transmission is the worst-case scenario because you're talking about very long periods of unmasked shared airspace, often with poor ventilation, and close contact. For an employer, this tells you that you can't rely on one thing to prevent spread but the c…

There's a substantive difference between none and "not 100%". Medical professionals didn't warn anyone about zero effectiveness Probably hospitals and care homes are actually the worst-case scenarios for viral transmission because they're full of people who are already sick or have weak immune systems.

You've ignored the point about illogicality completely.

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#246

Post by kkjjkgjjgg » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 10:35 AM UTC

ben_w wrote: post #108

kkjjkgjjgg wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, iirc there are studies showing people are more likely to be obese if the people around them are obese. So obesity seems to be communicable in some sense. As for driving you are of course wrong, other bad drivers can affect your health.

I’d expect proximity to correlate regardless of the cause — environmental, memes, lifestyle, pathogens, etc. Are there any studies on causation?

Would be interesting, but I don't really know the whole extent of that research atm.

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#247

Post by novalis78 » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 10:49 AM UTC

Come to Florida. We are actively hiring. If Google does not want you, we do! jobs@bytefederal.com

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#248

Post by ekianjo » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 1:01 PM UTC

summerlight wrote: post #243

ekianjo wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you talk us through exactly which rights you think are being violated? I recall the left has been very vocal about "my body my right" when it came to some different kind of issue. Funny that the standards don't hold very much.

Abortion is not even remotely comparable to this particular issue since it doesn't harm anyone but the real stakeholders. Not getting vaccine threaten everyone around you. Probably it's more comparable to the idiom "your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins".

> Not getting vaccine threaten everyone around you

I am kind of tired of hearing that when ACTUAL DATA shows that vaccinated people transmit the virus just as well.

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#249

Post by ekianjo » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 1:04 PM UTC

titzer wrote: post #170

ekianjo wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you talk us through exactly which rights you think are being violated? I recall the left has been very vocal about "my body my right" when it came to some different kind of issue. Funny that the standards don't hold very much.

> the left has been very vocal about "my body my right" Regarding abortion. Are pregnancies contagious now, creating a serious public health crisis?

> creating a serious public health crisis

the serious health crisis where mostly people with 3-4 comorbidities (or old age) are dying? It's rather a crisis when your population is not being very healthy in the first place.

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#250

Post by ekianjo » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 1:05 PM UTC

Volundr wrote: post #238

ekianjo wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You employer is checking what you drink before you drive? If not, that's a pretty bad analogy.

When I was driving a company vehicle for my job? Hell yes they were.

So they were checking every morning when you were taking your company car that you had no alcohol in your blood? How did that work? Your boss was waiting at the door?