The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness • Hacker News Board

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#241

Post by rkk3 » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 1:59 AM UTC

airmailspecial wrote: post #235

dogleash wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Loneliness isn't a problem. This is a weird bone to pick. It's similar to saying "obesity isn't a problem, overeating is." Like, yeah, sure, you can frame it that way if you want. But what utility have you added? So that you can build up to the conclusion that lonely people ought to go socialize properly? That's pretty tautological advice there mate.

>This is a weird bone to pick. It's similar to saying "obesity isn't a problem, overeating is." I read GP's comment more along the lines of "loneliness is akin to a hunger that drives the lonely person towards seeking deeper personal connection with others". Similarly to how some people argue that "boredom is a gift" which leads to creativity[0]. Instead of placating that hunger with poor substitutes, be it TV, netfl…

There is a difference between a fleeting feeling of loneliness, and the prolonged feelings of social isolation that the article is talking about. Just like there is a difference between "feeling sad" and clinical depression. They were equating them, which is silly.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#242

Post by blindmute » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:02 AM UTC

ljm wrote: post #73

jbrun wrote: post #4

It's a bit paradoxical. I have a tech company and most staff want to come to the office 1 day a week. Getting them to come is very tough. Many of my staff and friends don't want to have kids, make no effort to find a partner and find all sorts of excuses. Netflix, the internet and these things are part of the problem, but I have no clue what the solution is. There is only one way to not be lonely - be with people who…

You really have to know how to look after yourself, and be happy with yourself, before you can really bring another person into the mix in the form of a committed relationship (using the example of people not having partners or not thinking about children). There's been an expectation for a long time that your self-worth as a person is connected to being with someone else, and therefore your path to increase self-wor…

This is a pervasive cope. Relationships, romantic and otherwise, are necessary for most people to be happy. "You're not ready for relationships until you're happy alone," is something people say that doesn't make any real sense. It doesn't indicate a personality deficit, either. It's completely normal and healthy to require relationships for happiness; pretending that this is some sign of mental disorder is a disturbing modern coping mechanism.

What's stranger is that it's rarely a cope for the person saying it. Instead, they are explaining away others' desires as unhealthy, while they often have those desires already fulfilled themselves. It's as though the speaker is uncomfortable with others being lonely and seeks to demonize it as a personal failing.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#243

Post by blindmute » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:14 AM UTC

bloopernova wrote: post #50

jbrun wrote: post #4

It's a bit paradoxical. I have a tech company and most staff want to come to the office 1 day a week. Getting them to come is very tough. Many of my staff and friends don't want to have kids, make no effort to find a partner and find all sorts of excuses. Netflix, the internet and these things are part of the problem, but I have no clue what the solution is. There is only one way to not be lonely - be with people who…

I've chatted with a couple of people who feel that their country (USA) is descending into chaos, and they don't feel like investing in a doomed future. I agree with the general feeling, but I'm trying to use it to motivate myself to have more fun. As to why people feel doomed: Republicans are putting the most faithful trump zealots in places to most influence the next elections. Remember that the Republicans believe…

Why do you think the Republicans also feel doomed?

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#244

Post by panaffa » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 4:34 AM UTC

jollybean wrote: post #240

BeaverFirewall6 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You bring up some good points, I agree the vaccine was a miracle and I hope we can find many more cures to all the diseases out there. However, I personally am more gloomy about how countries are witholding information about the origins of the pandemic, nations without domestic vaccines have been left behind with who knows how many dead, lockdowns + economic pains + supply shortages + postponed elections have led to…

China's coverup of their ills is a 2/10 for the bad things they have done even in recent history. That's normal. As far as group cohesion, yes, it's a problem, I totally agree. Though don't think anyone 'understands' anyone, often not even their spouses or closest relatives, so keep your chin up and keep an open mind, be thankful for the things you do have.

Thanks for the positive message. As I've grown older and matured, I've learned to be content and even amusedly appreciative of both the beauty and many flaws of the world. I've also developed a better relationship with myself through writing more and giving myself the time and space to think about and appreciate who I am and how far I've come.

Hope you have beautiful day and a beautiful life ahead.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#245

Post by Bancakes » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 6:54 AM UTC

tsol wrote: post #220

Bancakes wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see those are American self-reports. From experience, here around Eastern Europe, I am surrounded by people content with being single. If anything, life doesn't get cheaper.

So they say, but single people are statistically more unhappy to the degree that they don't live as long as married people. Saying this as a single person

Best response I can think of is 'Simpson's paradox'

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#246

Post by bradlys » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 7:35 AM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #203

kelseyfrog wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember the same. However, as I've gotten older and everything has become political, the non-political path has gotten smaller and smaller and has all but disappeared. Even more importantly, I've realized that it's not healthy to have an entire social diet composed of polite conversations. Emotional vulnerability and openness is a necessary ingredient for meaningful social engagement. An opening move into politics…

Polite conversations are for strangers, coworkers, and other people who have to deal with you in a service role. To rephrase, please don't give your waitress or barber a rant on how candidate X is doing A and B. You should have good friends who willingly engage in deep conversation with you, whether it's religion, sex, politics, etc. That is where your openness and vulnerability are - not with bots on twitter.

But is a polite conversation even worth having? I’m honestly not convinced. Just because I went out and conversed with some folks in a polite way doesn’t mean I feel any less lonely. In fact - I’d likely feel even more lonely than if I hadn’t gone out at all. Now I’m surrounding myself with people I can’t even form a real connection with because we can’t talk about anything real.

I’ve noticed this pattern with quite a few people I’ve met lately. Completely embarrassed to discuss anything significant like why they’re doing what they’re doing, what they want out of life, and how they’re going about accomplishing it - if at all. It’s topics that most people are just deathly afraid of speaking about while in public but truly are necessary to understand what the heck a person really is like. (Assuming you want to be close to them and support them)

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#247

Post by raxxorrax » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 12:59 PM UTC

G3rn0ti wrote: post #148

mrdoops wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need stable, actionable futures. Homes they can afford to own, communities they can raise kids in, an environment that won't go up in flames; they need systems that have their back.

> Homes they can afford to own In Germany where I live home owners are in the minority (40%). In Europe on average homeownership is about 70%. Yet, we are one of the richest countries in Europe. Furthermore, buying a house on credit does not mean you own it — since as long as you pay your debt it’s the bank that owns it really. Finding a partner and maintaining a relationship got nothing to do with owning a home. I a…

> Yet, we are one of the richest countries in Europe.

We have strong social security, but Germans have few assets and those aren't really equally distributed. I don't think financial problems are standing in the way of kids though.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#248

Post by raxxorrax » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 12:59 PM UTC

kidsil wrote: post #167

G3rn0ti wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Homes they can afford to own In Germany where I live home owners are in the minority (40%). In Europe on average homeownership is about 70%. Yet, we are one of the richest countries in Europe. Furthermore, buying a house on credit does not mean you own it — since as long as you pay your debt it’s the bank that owns it really. Finding a partner and maintaining a relationship got nothing to do with owning a home. I a…

Being a tenant in Germany cannot be compared to being a tenant in the US. Being a tenant in Germany is essentially as stable (if not more stable) as taking a mortgage on a home in the US. This is still the type of stability the state provides, which is quickly disappearing worldwide as all funds go into real estate due to a decade of zero (or negative) interest rates.

If you cannot pay, you will be evicted within 1-3 months.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#249

Post by raxxorrax » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 1:05 PM UTC

tsol wrote: post #219

kelseyfrog wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lost? It was dismantled and it was done with intent. Let us not forget the people who did it and how they did it. "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families." - Margaret Thatcher It's much harder to build something than it is to tear it down.

How did Thatcher make it so Americans don't really bother to know their neighbors anymore(can your believe people used to borrow a cup of sugar from their neighbors-- now I feel like that'd make be seen as crazy)? How did she make it so that people feel like calling is weird and people should just text(and dropping by unannounced is just annoying, even if your a friend, which in the past was considered an occasion to…

I think it is the cities really. It should be easier to connect to people there, right? The opposite seems to be true in my experience. Sure, you cannot select the people in your nearer community, but they seem to be far more engaging. My experience at least as someone that mostly lived in the city. Maybe it has something to do with having more of a stake yourself.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#250

Post by papito » Wed, Dec 08, 2021, 3:15 PM UTC

goldenchrome wrote: post #169

papito wrote: post #59

What's striking to me is that it also deepened the supply of assholes. One would think that after one year under effective house arrest people would be happy to see others and be nicer to each other, but the opposite is true.

You think people would be nicer to others if they were prevented from socializing, a basic human function, and taught to fear their fellow man—for two whole years?

I don't translate the possibility of someone being infected into my personal attitude toward them. I go out of my way to be nice to service industry people, and tip them extra-well too.