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Without parental leave I might be dead

nytimes.com

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Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#241

Post by bbarn »

endisneigh wrote: post #18

The problem with parental leave is the same problem with universal health care or any entitlement that isn’t utilized by the entire population at the same rate constantly. Things like roads (and even then there are many locales with crappy roads) are easy to justify. Things like parental leave and universal health care are hard because the percentage of those utilizing will be low and the disproportionate benefit wil…

Except that, normalizing long time off for both maternity and paternity has much broader societal benefit, even if people don't think they need to.

This author's case is extreme, but any child benefits from more developmental time in the earliest stages.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#242

Post by bbarn »

I agree with the author's point, but her jokes are cringy at best and trying to use funding for space programs as a way to blame lawmakers for ignoring people's basic needs is something that's been dead since Kennedy shut it down in the 60's.

It's not like there's one pool of money, and some wizard distributes it.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#243

Post by hattmall »

lifeformed wrote: post #219
bradleyjg wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we should look at why three sectors of the economy have had insane cost growth for three plus decades (housing, healthcare, education) and fix that instead of trying to band aid the negative consequences?

You mean there's a choice?! Cool, I'd be happy if we simply just fixed all the massive, complex problems of the entire economy over just having parental leave.

Of course there's a choice, there's a singular reason for the rising cost of all those things. Government intervention and injecting money into those markets. Costs will rise to absorb availability of funds. Give people virtually unlimited finding for higher education?? Expect costs to rise at a similar rate. Force everyone to buy insurance through a rigid process and heavily subsidize the worst possible coverage. Makes perfect sense that prices rise and quality deteriorates.

Have the government lend trillions of dollars at low interest with minimal qualifications for housing. Expected outcome is realized.

Same is happening with childcare. Government increases child care credit. No surprise that daycare has raised the rate $30 per week.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#244

Post by Mvandenbergh »

endisneigh wrote: post #128
Mvandenbergh wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of the population over time will use parental leave if it is available. Most people do have at least one child in their lifetime so this is a terrible example of an entitlement which is unequally distributed. Health care is even worse, especially if you are guaranteeing access prospectively. Even people who are not currently using healthcare resources (hopefully most people) know that there is a very goo…

> The majority of the population over time will use parental leave if it is available. I agree with this. However: > b) It distributes resources from higher to lower earners, depending on how the obligation is structured there is usually a progressive taxation element which ensures a certain minimum is available. This is irrelevant to whether or not parental leave is a ponzi scheme. > a) It moves resources from your…

Parental leave temporarily moves labour output from the measurable "economy" to the non-measured domestic economy (and displaces a small amount of what would otherwise be wage-labour childcare by non-parents).

Children raised in this way will require childcare of their own but I don't see how the labour required to raise children goes up over time unless the fraction of the population which is children goes up.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#245

Post by hedgehog »

TheCapn wrote: post #70

My first child is due January. I sat down with my boss about a month or so ago and told him I'm intending to take parental leave. "No problem" he said, I told him my intention was to take the full 8 weeks I'm entitled to. He didn't say anything right away to that... eventually it was more of a "...that's not typical for the guys around here" We did a bit of back and forth. (I think he went to HR to find out he can't…

My major advice on this is to consider splitting into two chunks, one right away and one a little later after the adrenaline wears off, you start bottle feeding, and you can take over the night shift (feeding etc).

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#246

Post by teawrecks »

hnaccount141 wrote: post #208
pc86 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a business relationship so I don't see why "they'd fire you in no time if you stopped providing value" is always thrown around as a negative. Of course that's the case. You'd stopped working in no time if they stopped providing value to you too. As it should be, from both sides. You can have loyalty and still understand that there's a social/informal contract in place (and maybe a formal one in some places).

I don't think it's a negative in absolute terms, it's just an argument against loyalty to a company. Loyalty is a two way street, and is defined by how people treat each other when times are tough. It is common for companies to expect "loyalty" in the form of working extra hours when the company is in a tight spot or settling for meager raises rather than switching companies while at the same time laying people off a…

Right, which is why you should never feel loyalty for a company. They're not people, they don't have brains, they don't have empathy or loyalty to you, they will drop you the moment it makes sense to.

Have loyalty for people who deserve it, but never for companies.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#247

Post by bradleyjg »

lifeformed wrote: post #219
bradleyjg wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we should look at why three sectors of the economy have had insane cost growth for three plus decades (housing, healthcare, education) and fix that instead of trying to band aid the negative consequences?

You mean there's a choice?! Cool, I'd be happy if we simply just fixed all the massive, complex problems of the entire economy over just having parental leave.

We haven’t even tried.

For healthcare, the last time I heard about bending the cost curve was during the Obama administration.

For education, I’ve never seen any politician suggests we try to reign in cost growth—-just proposals around who should eat the costs.

For housing, governments at all levels have been pulling every policy lever they can find to increase costs. Falling costs are wildly considered a national emergency.

Why is it that progressives’ solution to everything is to dump money out of the air? Are there no structural improvements to be made anywhere?

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#248

Post by lifeformed »

JohnWhigham wrote: post #218
ashtonkem wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Saying "other countries do it" isn't really an answer. There's no clear solutions Ah, the dark side of American exceptionalism. "Other countries do it" is absolutely an answer. We could, if we wanted to, peruse our way through the policies used in other countries and pick the one that best fits Americas needs and demographic situation. But that isn't possible if we put blinders on and pretend that the experience of…

The so-called "progressives" in Congress couldn't even get paid leave in the transportation bill because they have no spine. It just shows how badly this country is fucked by corporations

How does "having a spine" force votes out of people who disagree?

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#249

Post by teawrecks »

commandlinefan wrote: post #223
kingsloi wrote: post #217

I literally worked for most of my child's 8 month life, from her ICU room, I worked the morning of her 9 surgeries, I worked through the genetic diagnosis, I worked through being told my child has brain bleeds, neuroblastoma, is deaf, re-intubated, etc... if my insurance wasn't tied to my work, I would've quit in a heartbeat. I'm convinced I'll go to my grave with working that time being my biggest regret in life. I…

Did you ask for an extended leave of absence? Many employers are a lot more humane than a lot of employees give them credit for, whether they're bound by law or not.

I assume you mean an unpaid situation?

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#250

Post by Clubber »

pc86 wrote: post #176
helloworld11 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without knowing your company in detail, based on what you describe and general business practices, I'd be willing to bet that they'd fire you in no time if you ever stopped providing value for them. So why be loyal at all? 8 weeks is crumbs, and you even had to fight for that. I mean if you've been a solid employee for X years, briefly asking for a bit of time off for a life changing event should be absolutely fine,…

It's a business relationship so I don't see why "they'd fire you in no time if you stopped providing value" is always thrown around as a negative. Of course that's the case. You'd stopped working in no time if they stopped providing value to you too. As it should be, from both sides. You can have loyalty and still understand that there's a social/informal contract in place (and maybe a formal one in some places).

If you really wanted to treat it like a business relationship, any employee should constantly be looking for higher paying / better job and leave immediately when that job is offered, not even giving 2 weeks, because that's 2 weeks of additional income the employee wouldn't be getting. Are you in agreeable with that as well? Hard, cold business decisions work both ways.
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