Live data from Hacker News

From macOS to Arch Linux

juxt.pro

241–250 of 256 posts

Re: From macOS to Arch Linux

#241
post #212
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is probably a reference to the AUR, but its use is not as common as some people seem to think and is somewhat discouraged Arch proper has like 60% the package count of openSUSE, fewer than 1/2 as many packages as Fedora, fewer than 1/3 as many packages as Debian, and fewer than 1/6 as many packages as NixOS.[1] Maybe some of this is Arch having larger packages (splitting fewer of them out), but whatever fudge fa…

What matters is the relevance of the packages in the main repositories, not the quantity. While the quantity will affect some people, it will primarily affect those who use obscure packages. As for the fudge factor, it would be difficult to even agree upon criteria. For example: should python or rust libraries be included, given they have their own package managers?

> What matters is the relevance of the packages in the main repositories, not the quantity.

This is a good point. It would be awesome if we had the metrics to look at this. I would not be surprised if Arch had a good focus on popular packages.

And yeah, what's relevant will vary between users.

> As for the fudge factor, it would be difficult to even agree upon criteria. For example: should python or rust libraries be included, given they have their own package managers?

I don't think this particular case would be too tricky. We can probably exclude them, or just count them separately. Libraries packaged in the distro package manager are useful, but they're mostly useful for simplifying the process of creating new packages for the distro.

Re: From macOS to Arch Linux

#242
post #31

Not Arch, but macOS to Linux related. As a developer, used macOS for 13 years. Switched to Ubuntu after Apple went to M1. It's been pretty much flawless and required no more tweaks during setup than a typical macOS install would. Developing on the same environment as our servers is a massive plus. The key is choosing the right hardware from the start. For my desktop, I chose an Asus TUF gaming motherboard that had ev…

Just curious, how’s the trackpad compared to a recent MacBook Pro? I’ve been using my Thinkpad T490 with Debian for 3 years and it’s fine. But then I tried the new MacBook Pro and that trackpad is very nice indeed. Feels a lot more precise. And the attention to smaller details and a consistent UI is nice to see too. I’ve also been kind of peeved about several small things in Linux lately. Installing apps is not simpl…

You can avoid snaps and flatpack with Linux Mint or Debian. They still support them but their repos have had everything I need without using snaps or flatpack.

Re: From macOS to Arch Linux

#243
post #79
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a great advice! On the other hand, what is it that Arch offers and Debian does not? (Asking this as a long time Slackware fan.)

What offer debian that arch doesn't offer? Arch it is really stable and with latest packages. I see debian as a pain in the ass when you want a new packages or you have to upgrade to a new version. I don't have those issues in arch.

Better package management. More stability.

Re: From macOS to Arch Linux

#244
post #102
post #6

Getting your custom stack tuned feels great, but maintaining that entire stack across updates is daunting. You can't join meetings because your headphone/ mic/ video drivers aren't working? yikes. i trust apple to handle hardware and os for me. I've switched to: macOS > brew (basic cli utils & gui apps) > some basic zshrc (not ohmyzsh) > docker (not environment managers) > done. ^ but i've lost trust for them to hand…

> You can't join meetings because your headphone/ mic/ video drivers aren't working? Funnily the "oh wait my mic is not working, let me reboot" seems to happen all the time when my Mac-using coworkers join meetings.

That's probably more due to marketing for the Mac advertising "It just works", which attracts people with low technical aptitude.

Re: From macOS to Arch Linux

#245
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're confusing Arch with Gentoo or something - the Arch package manager is not from-source, it ships binaries just like apt. Perhaps you're thinking of the AUR, which does usually just host the PKGBUILD which you run makepkg on directly to compile, but that's analogous to something like an Ubuntu PPA, not the core package manager. The main thing that people like about it is the rolling release model; new pa…

> The main thing that people like about it is the rolling release model; new packages for virtually everything are updated within hours or days of an upstream release, with incredible practical stability. Fedora Rawhide and openSUSE Tumbleweed are both nearly as up-to-date[1] as the Arch repos but they have package managers with correct dependency solvers and continuous integration pipelines with tests produce their…

I don't recommend using Rawhide, but standard Fedora is pretty up to date anyway, so it's not necessary.

Re: From macOS to Arch Linux

#246
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's interesting. In what ways are these resolvers superior to pacman? One good example is that even though PKGBUILDs can contain version constraints (see an example here[1]), that metadata is not always present and so it is underutilized. Pacman doesn't support ‘partial upgrades’[2] (once you refresh your package lists, installing anything is ‘unsupported’ until you upgrade everything ), and this is why. (I also…

> Pacman doesn't support ‘partial upgrades’[2] (once you refresh your package lists, installing anything is ‘unsupported’ until you upgrade everything), and this is why. > Another depsolver related issue in Pacman (related to the lack of partial upgrades) is the lack of distinction between upgrades and dist-upgrades. Yes. Personally, I believe that these are features rather than issues. I don't ever want my system to…

> Yes. Personally, I believe that these are features rather than issues. I don't ever want my system to be in a partially upgraded state. I treat inability to fully upgrade as a maintenance problem that I have to solve.

You don't ever have to install without upgrading on any other package manager or distro, either, though. And the way Pacman refuses to run `pacman -Syu` if some packages can't be upgraded doesn't doesn't really save you from partial upgrades, because nothing actually stops you from running `pacman -Sy `, and that is a thing people do.

> Yes, those are fair points. I suppose I don't feel this pain because I don't actually use the AUR very often. When ABIs are broken, Arch maintainers will recompile and update all affected packages. Naturally, AUR packages will not be included...

For some years (longer than I ever continuously ran Arch) I used to run Sabayon Linux. It had its own package manager, Entropy, which was hugely impressive to me at the time. It supported all of Portage's masking facilities for managing and constraining version, but it was centered on binary packages, and it was really, really fast.

At the same time, it was sort of compatible with Portage, so you could install software with `emerge` and then reconcile the Entropy package database with the newly-installed outside packages, I think with `equo spmsync`, or something like that. Of course, working this way was totally unsupported, but it was also perfectly reliable, if you knew what you were doing. Just make sure to run `revdep-rebuild && equo spmsync` after every `equo upgrade`, or whatever.

In a way, it was very similar to Arch, except instead of the AUR, you had all of Gentoo, and, if you wanted, the overlay system (its third-party repos). The integration was a little tighter, and Portage was/is a full-fledged package manager that sees use as a core tool for other distros, not one of a dozen competing wrappers around an unofficial source control repo and Entropy, so that side of things was much more powerful as well.

It was pretty cool. But the whole bifurcation between the worlds of binary packages and the source-based package management system was a persistent annoyance. There was always some hope and desire that in the future, they could be better integrated.

Arch seems content to have this kind of eternal twilight, with a package manager that's sort of source-based and sort of binary, and to get a whole package manager out of the source-based side you need some third-party wrapper tools. Then the AUR is this de facto source-based community repo with extraordinarily low packaging standards, and it never gets binary caching. It just feels half finished, and the roadmap for Arch seems to be to leave it that way forever. (I'm sure many packages graduate into the community repos all the time, which is great.)

But there are full-fledged source-based package managers now (Nix, Guix, Homebrew) where binary caching is totally transparent. There's no two kinds of repos, one source-based and one binary, and if you modify a package that's part of the main repos, the package manager just chugs along and builds it from source like nothing happened. And when it's done, it's a first-class citizen of your system no matter where it came from.

You can basically learn not to use things from the AUR because they're second-class, especially if you maintain your own local repository or you contribute to the Arch repos. It seems lots of people do. But the way many, many people use the distro is still fundamentally split between two worlds, just like the way I used Sabayon more than 10 years ago.

Re: From macOS to Arch Linux

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

S3 is actually totally gone on Tiger Lake and newer, so with a new laptop you are hosed. This is a really gross move by MS and Intel. If you want to make s0ix (which is what you'll need to now research if you're in this boat) suck somewhat less, start here [0] then follow the troubleshooting steps [1] (since it surely won't work the first time). It used to be I'd roll my eyes at the people on HN complaining about Lin…

the option for linux sleep mode exists on my thinkpad with an 11th gen intel CPU

Where did you find it? I looked through all BIOS settings K could find three times but was not able to locate it.

Re: From macOS to Arch Linux

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that will lose more time installed unsupported packages than losing some time when arch breaks, because it rarely breaks (less than once a year). And fixes usually take 5 minutes

I think it depends on the user and hardware. Many years ago I had a laptop with an AMD GPU and CPU, it was new like 1 year old when AMD drop support for the driver. If I wanted decent compositing on Linux I had to stay with an older kernel and Xorg version so I used old Ubuntu LTSes and debian at that time. And i decided to never use AMD, I got an Intel+NVIDIA PC, but now it seems NVIDIA is the one with shit drivers,…

Many years ago is not the same in Linux in general. Try it now. I didn't have those issues in more than a decade. Everything worked out of the box

Re: From macOS to Arch Linux

#250
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What offer debian that arch doesn't offer? Arch it is really stable and with latest packages. I see debian as a pain in the ass when you want a new packages or you have to upgrade to a new version. I don't have those issues in arch.

Better package management. More stability.

I think pacman is one of the best package managers. And as I said, arch it is quite stable, a little less than debian, which stops me from using it in production, but good enough to use it daily.
Post reply on HN