Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops • Hacker News Board

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#241

Post by pfortuny » Thu, Nov 04, 2021, 7:29 PM UTC

pwdisswordfish8 wrote: post #140

drcongo wrote: post #128

Every edutech platform I've ever had to use (UK, with 3 kids going through school) is an abomination, the whole sector needs disrupting. My current nemesis is Iris Parentmail [0], a convoluted jumble of javascript that presents the user with a challenge - try to read the apparently important message the school has sent you before Parentmail crashes your browser. If the message is particularly long, then there's an en…

For anyone who's been burned by these: Why aren't you equally as mad at the personnel at your child's school? It's one thing for a national or semi-national rollout of broken enterprise junk, it's another thing for your child's instructor to go along and demand that you use this broken system instead of providing reasonable affordances (e.g. low-tech, paper-based notices/forms that get sent home with your kid). For t…

You should not underestimate the power of “ISO-9000” in European institutions (including schools) and the “necessity” of an official “document trail” of everything.

I lecture at a Uni and it has not reached me yet but am expecting it.

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#242

Post by pfortuny » Thu, Nov 04, 2021, 7:31 PM UTC

literallyaduck wrote: post #13

Government should learn from that self organized teams who work for passion build better software. Authoritarian dictators mandating a poor solution vs self lead, self organized, committed parents building a piece of software they will instantly dogfood.

I have said above this: there is no way to win if the opponent shows you an “ISO-9000” (et al.) certification and you are a “bunch of interested parents”…

You can only lose.

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#243

Post by wonderwonder » Thu, Nov 04, 2021, 7:32 PM UTC

teawrecks wrote: post #211

wonderwonder wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if you have kids, I am guessing not, if I am wrong, my apologies. Knowing what your kids have due for school is not micromanaging its a core part of being a good parent. I know if my kid has a math test so it lets me sit down with him and review for his test, it allows me to ensure he knows the basis for whatever comes next in his curriculum. Terribly overbearing parents are not good but I think people a…

I know you have kids, so you're too close to the situation to have an unbiased view, but realize that the math is only a small part of what your child is learning here. They also need to know how to judge for themselves whether they are prepared, they need to know how to seek out help from you or a tutor when they don't. Similarly, they need to learn what happens when they don't do these things and just assume someon…

"You are doing your child a disservice by ensuring they are always prepared for every challenge they face." I think you are very much reading too far into the situation. I am making sure my 7 and 10 year old do their homework. They know there are consequences for not doing it because I explain to them that there are. Kids don't have to get hit by a car to know to look both ways, they just need the parent to tell them. I understand you don't have kids and so are coming at this from a theoretical position, but theory and a live breathing, emotional child are very different things. You could argue that this is the way you were raised and you turned out great, but everyone was raised differently and most of the people on this site probably turned out pretty well when compared to the majority of society at least from a financial and capability perspective.

"so you're too close to the situation to have an unbiased view, but realize that the math is only a small part of what your child is learning here" I appreciate the perspective, on the other hand you don't have kids so have not experienced the situation at all. The idea that a parent is doing a young child a disservice by sitting with them, reviewing their homework and discussing their day is pretty strange. I wish you well when you have children of your own. Now if you will excuse me I have to go and tell Brady how to improve the snap in his throws.

Edit: "I know you have kids, so you're too close to the situation to have an unbiased view, but realize that the math is only a small part of what your child is learning here". Your argument boils down to people without kids are the best people to know what is best for kids as people with kids are too close to the situation. That makes no sense and I disagree.

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#244

Post by watwut » Thu, Nov 04, 2021, 7:35 PM UTC

renewiltord wrote: post #240

watwut wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not him, but generally to large extend I have that strategy and kids do well. Both have good grades and are motivated. Obvious caveat is that if their grades were not good, I would get involved more. When their grades fallen a bit, I was there telling them that they need to learn, analyzing test with them and so on and blah blah. When homework was not done, I got involved for a while until the kid got into habit of d…

How did you know the homework wasn’t done?

When homework is not done, teacher sends the email. Or gave the kid black point and then the kid was unhappy about it and told me. If it did not, that teacher would also send mail, but after like 2-3 points within short period (don't know the exact rules).

The other option is to ask in the evening "have you done homework". One of my kids would never lie and other only rarely, so it worked.

To add to it, old system was not freedom. One feature of old "parents know only what kids tell them" system was that many parents learned about issues only when inevitable end of semester report/grades came. At that point, issues grew large. Even worst, parents were surprised and shocked, tended to react badly, punish the kid , yell, beat them etc. I remember reading about flux of kids running away each time reports come.

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#245

Post by burnished » Thu, Nov 04, 2021, 7:36 PM UTC

raxxorrax wrote: post #8

> In some cases, people’s personal information could be accessed from Google searches. SEO providers should take a note here. > It warned parents to stop using the app and alleged that it might be illegally accessing people’s personal information If your API allows data extraction, it probably isn't a fault of any client. Perhaps they meant that creators could steal credentials. A problem with any software. I think t…

This is all information that the parent would have anyway. Lunch isn't private information, the curriculum isn't private information, tests and homework as well isn't private, its just that it was all a shit ton of minutia that typically didn't get memorized by any individual.

Part of being a parent is helping your child navigate and learn about the world. Having this sort of information - what are the details about what this institution is offering on a daily basis - sounds invaluable.

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#246

Post by pbhjpbhj » Thu, Nov 04, 2021, 7:41 PM UTC

teawrecks wrote: post #219

wonderwonder wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your parents already had access to the app, just in the form of a folder you were sent home with that had everything printed out. This is just a digitized version, its not the 2nd coming of the Gestapo. Also you need to think about this from the perspective of the parents, having kids in school mean you have to do things, you can either be informed ahead of time and do them in a leisurely manner or you can find out l…

It sounds like you may have had a very unorthodox childhood and may not realize it. No, my parents didn't have access to, or knowledge about my things. As soon as you entrust a child with a document, it is up to that child whether that document survives more than a few steps out of the classroom, let alone whether a parent ever knows about it. That is a very strong form of autonomy, important to a child's development…

We should leave them out on the hills to fend for themselves, feeding them will only make them weak! /s

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#247

Post by cerved » Thu, Nov 04, 2021, 7:42 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #101

Perhaps Jeff Bezos wasn't the first person to think of it, but I give him credit for the decision to turn every single internal Amazon service into an API. Obviously it worked splendidly for monetizing it, but as a guideline I really appreciate the idea. The better the APIs a project has, the better the quality of interaction with other development. In the end this just raises the tide for everyone.

Program to interfaces not implementations

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#248

Post by MichaelZuo » Thu, Nov 04, 2021, 7:42 PM UTC

henrikschroder wrote: post #214

GhettoComputers wrote: post #112

Monopolies hate competition, they’re terrified of better products, and a free open source version is better than their squandered tax program. Why are the defending their own poor quality program? Do they want Sweden to fail?

The only reason they're defending their shit is prestige at this point. The system was originally procured by city administrators who had way too little understanding and experience dealing with IT projects. The contract was awarded to one of the big consultant behemoths who specialize in winning government contracts and executing them shoddily. Parents hate it, because it is shit. Anyone in the industry with a brain…

Can the crown, or some superior authority, pension off ‘city administrators’ in Sweden as they please?

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#249

Post by cerved » Thu, Nov 04, 2021, 7:46 PM UTC

merpnderp wrote: post #6

rockbruno wrote: post #5

Funny that they were so concerned about GDPR violations given that in Sweden everyone's address/job/phone/salary is public and easily accessible. I like it that every time a foreigner joins my company (I live in Sweden) it's a matter of time before they post a message in our Stockholm channel saying "guys... what the hell is this website and why am I in it?". Then the swedes mention that they see nothing wrong with i…

Salary? How could that being public serve the public's interest? As a privacy advocate that does pique my curiosity.

not salary, taxable income, which got most people is pretty much their salary

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#250

Post by Nullabillity » Thu, Nov 04, 2021, 7:48 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #213

teawrecks wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also don't have kids. I'm in my 30s. Totally agree with the other commenter. As a kid in school, I had to learn to be responsible for things, it was my responsibility to decide what I could handle on my own and what I told my parents about, and I paid the price when I dropped the ball. Yeah, there are always a few kids who need more help learning these skills than others, and I could see the app in the hands of good…

Your parents already had access to the app, just in the form of a folder you were sent home with that had everything printed out. This is just a digitized version, its not the 2nd coming of the Gestapo. Also you need to think about this from the perspective of the parents, having kids in school mean you have to do things, you can either be informed ahead of time and do them in a leisurely manner or you can find out l…

> Your parents already had access to the app, just in the form of a folder you were sent home with that had everything printed out.

Where are you from?

In the 7 different (pre-university) schools I went to in Sweden, none of them had paper folders, and only one had a digital platform like this. And that one was only for teachers and students, parents didn't have access.