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Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

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Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#241

Post by jokethrowaway »

nuerow wrote: post #160
nonomaybeyes wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally, I expect this to be attacked as well, but am hopeful! At least it can't be called a "horse dewormer".

> At least it can't be called a "horse dewormer". The reference to "horse dewormer" is the fact that a substantial volume of people started actually ingesting horse dewormer bought straight from farm supply stores because ivermectin was listed as a component. Demand for horse dewormer intended for this ad-hoc use grew so much that its availability was jeopardized, and in some cases ceased to be available to farmers w…

That's not what the comment is referring to.

CNN used the term to falsely describe what Joe Rogan took to treat COVID - he did not take horse dewormer but a normal human dosage prescribed by a doctor.

Sure, there were reports of people taking horse dewormer and nobody objects that reporting, just the usage of the term in relationship to JR.

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#242

Post by jokethrowaway »

tinus_hn wrote: post #155
_3u10 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would depend greatly on their age, I would posit for that those over 65, any drug that killed less than 10% of the people who took it would be acceptable. Vaccines are part of a broader political debate, the problem in politics is people are picking sides. It's very rare to run into a person who doesn't support the vaccine mandates but did get vaccinated. People are generally either anti-vax & anti-mandate, or vac…

> It's very rare to run into a person who doesn't support the vaccine mandates but did get vaccinated. How do you tell?

From the maga hat

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#243

Post by jokethrowaway »

_3u10 wrote: post #37
rebuilder wrote: post #8

I wonder what rate of adverse effects will be considered acceptable for a drug administered to people known to have the virus? For vaccines, our tolerance seems very low. I suspect we don’t actually think prevention is better than a cure.

It would depend greatly on their age, I would posit for that those over 65, any drug that killed less than 10% of the people who took it would be acceptable. Vaccines are part of a broader political debate, the problem in politics is people are picking sides. It's very rare to run into a person who doesn't support the vaccine mandates but did get vaccinated. People are generally either anti-vax & anti-mandate, or vac…

I disagree.

I got the vaccine hoping it would make travelling easier and because I don't want to spend money on useless tests. Too bad I ended up having to get tested anyway.

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#244

Post by marklyon »

nuerow wrote: post #160
nonomaybeyes wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally, I expect this to be attacked as well, but am hopeful! At least it can't be called a "horse dewormer".

> At least it can't be called a "horse dewormer". The reference to "horse dewormer" is the fact that a substantial volume of people started actually ingesting horse dewormer bought straight from farm supply stores because ivermectin was listed as a component. Demand for horse dewormer intended for this ad-hoc use grew so much that its availability was jeopardized, and in some cases ceased to be available to farmers w…

The "substantial" nature is questionable. See, for example, the correction issued by the Mississippi Department of Health:

https://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/resources/15400.pdf

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#245

Post by pas »

lettergram wrote: post #191
dmschulman wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Alternative treatment" implies an unapproved, off-label use. Maybe you meant "promising therapeutic" or something along those lines? Throwing around the term "alternative" is dicey, especially in a world where people take advice about COVID vaccines and "alternative treatments" from podcasts hosted by former comedians. Once enough studies have been done, this off-label use for fluvoxamine will likely be blessed by t…

First define the terms, therapeutic and treatment have effectively the same meanings. https://www.askdifference.com/therapy-vs-treatment/ Joe rogan explained what his doc gave him. He’s also had multiple doctors and researchers on his show providing information regarding treatments they are attempting. Frankly, Ivermectin and the like have more research than the vaccine, they’ve been deployed for longer and at least…

> Ivermectin and the like have more research than the vaccine

That's very very unlikely. Even considering the Nobel prize for it. Simply because the sheer scale of the pandemic.

There are more vaccines in development and use against COVID than there are Ivermectin clinical trials in total.

> they’ve been deployed for longer and at least passed phase 1 trials, which the vaccine has not (only preliminary results).

That doesn't mean they are not safe. The phase 1 trials run to 2022 Nov, because there's a long follow up period.

Nothing can guarantee that there's not some mysterious missed interaction. It's probability is low and getting lower day-by-day. This tail risk is just not that important for safety. It makes very little sense to emphasize this, because we also don't know the long term interaction of Ivermectin and COVID-19.

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#246

Post by FilMo »

mionhe wrote: post #186
wesleywt wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as alternative medicine. If the drug is tested and found to be effective then it is medicine. But you must expect rigorous analysis and provide significant evidence to support you claims. This is how it works. If you can't handle it then you are in 'alternative' medicine, which is not real.

OP said alternative treatment. Presumably they meant an alternative to the treatments currently en vogue versus faith healing or some such thing. Also, it sounds like they are involved with people who are working on providing evidence...I'm not clear what is causing your criticism.

[dead]

Re: Cheap antidepressant shows promise treating early Covid-19

#247

Post by johnisgood »

revolvingocelot wrote: post #216
johnisgood wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am too lazy to look for it. It is on PubMed. In any case, there are many cases of n=1 on HN. Plus, it is not unheard of that immunostimulants may be quite harmful for people with an autoimmune disorder, say, MS. I merely mentioned this case because it is an odd one. She was fine. She took some herbs, and her condition worsened until she died like a day after. I will never forget it. Too bad I cannot seem to find it…

>In any case, there are many cases of n=1 on HN. Plus, it is not unheard of that immunostimulants may be quite harmful for people with an autoimmune disorder, say, MS. That's not the point! Perhaps it is on PubMed, but with the FUD-like "information" you've provided it's just a scary rumour about "herbs", and entirely unhelpful. Is MS even the illness at issue? Should people with that illness avoid cilantro? Milk thi…

I think I found the article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3130893/ (Acute Demyelinating Disease after Oral Therapy with Herbal Extracts)

So to answer your question: The formulation of tablets (labelled as ‘immunostimulant’) consisted of Echinacea purpurea 45 mg, Uncaria tomentosa 37.5 mg, and Tabebuia avellanedae and Plantago maritima 30 mg.

I only remembered the Echinacea one. It actually has been an issue in many of these cases, so I avoid it. As I said, immunostimulants for people with autoimmune disorder are usually not good. Immunomodulators can be, but that depends as well. For example allicin and propolis reduce production of inflammatory cytokines such as IL-6 and TNF-α, which from what I recall is good for MS.

Plus:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamadermatology/fullarticle... (Activation of autoimmunity following use of immunostimulatory herbal supplements)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32553683/ (The effects of immunostimulatory herbal supplements on autoimmune skin diseases)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6144106/ (Drug-induced autoimmune hepatitis associated with turmeric dietary supplement use)

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