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Despite having just 5.8% sales, over 38% of bug reports come from Linux

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Re: Despite having just 5.8% sales, over 38% of bug reports come from Linux

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multicapitalism might be the more academic term. A developer invested time to support linux not necessarily for financial return but social capital returns in the form of more helpful QA feedback.

Wow what an interesting term. Any idea where I can learn more?

There's a few forms I've bookmarked:

- Follow Bill Baue and the Reporting 3.0 folks - https://twitter.com/bbaue/status/1342101339120279552 - https://www.r3-0.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/r3-0-White-P...

- Joe Brewer on Multicapitalism and producing ecological flow: https://earth-regenerators.mn.co/posts/the-hidden-flow-of-re... skip to 16minutes for this model, references "the atlas of economic complexity" - https://atlas.cid.harvard.edu/ (bias: I sorta collaborate with Brewer on Earth Regenerators)

- Ethan Roland & Gregory Landua on 8 forms of capital : http://www.appleseedpermaculture.com/8-forms-of-capital/

Re: Despite having just 5.8% sales, over 38% of bug reports come from Linux

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So installing old packages is trivial I don believe this is true for ANY package(like install an old KDE4 app on your KDE5 system)

It depends how much older. Like just a few days, weeks or continue to use a older no longer maintained version of a package because you don't like the new version. I (now) guess you mean the later in which case, yes it's not trivial as it's not really supported by anyone anywhere. Neither the original software developers (which replaced it with a newer version), the package maintainers/Linux distro (which also moved…

I disagree, when you release a new version of something distros like Debian or Ubuntu will backport the security fixes but not backport the new features and the new bugs.

As an example we are a group of people with some eye disabilities but not completely blind, we use an old application Jovie for KDE, this app was removed from latest KDE and replaced with something with lot less feature. We are compiling this old app from source and at least for this old LTS distros we can get both Qt4/KDE4 and Qt5/KDE5 libs installed. So imagine people with disabilities doing an update one day and poof your must have thing is gone and you can't use your system anymore and some person on the internet will tell you that you are doing it wrong and should not use anythng else then the latest version of stuff because the developers do not support old stuff.

Re: Despite having just 5.8% sales, over 38% of bug reports come from Linux

#243
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is a VST plugin (and standalone), and amusingly probably works better in Wine than Native, aside from the fonts being craptastic. Containerized distribution doesn't really work for plug-ins. This is the first time I'm reading of Pipewire, and it sounds promising, but will need to have host support before it becomes a reasonable VST / LADSPA replacement. (I didn't see if that's among its goals, but such would…

> Yes, it is a VST plugin Shouldn't that be the easiest way to distribute audio software for linux? It's just a static shared library and maybe some data. > This is the first time I'm reading of Pipewire, and it sounds promising, but will need to have host support before it becomes a reasonable VST / LADSPA replacement. I'm pretty sure they didn't mention pipewire as a replacement for vst or lv2 (or ladspa lol). It's…

> It's just a static shared library [...]

No. First, "static shared library" is self-contradicting: libraries are either shared or static, not both.

The longer answer is that plugins have to be compiled with the `-fPIC` flag to be loadable. The `-fPIC` flag basically says that it has relocatable symbols. You can't link against system-provided static libraries because they're never (by design) compiled with `-fPIC`. It might be possible for us to configure our build system to recompile every library we depend on as static and relocatable, but that'd be quite a bit of effort to set up.

As such, we have to link against shared libraries, and you can have conflicts with the host if it is also pulling in those shared libraries. Ardour, on Linux, specifically, in their own packages, pull in a bunch of non-system shared libraries that conflict with the system ones, which breaks our plugin. There are other shenanigans with other hosts.

Re: Despite having just 5.8% sales, over 38% of bug reports come from Linux

#244

Negative feedback is insanely valuable. I write about that here:[0]. Here's what I wrote: > It can be mighty unpleasant to read negative reviews and comments about our work, but it’s worth it to do so, as long as we’re doing it to improve said work. I often say that positive affirmations feel good, but negative feedback is required to improve a product. Negative feedback, even if it’s uncouth diatribes from unpleasan…

>even if it’s uncouth diatribes from unpleasant people

HUGE Caveat: negative feedback is not always constructive feedback. I imagine the kind of feedback devs fear isn't

>There's this weird clipping problem with the character on this level that can rarely cause you to get stuck in the floor

it's

>OMG why can't I even move in this game, did the dev even playtest this shit?

Even if they are technically saying the same thing, the latter makes me want to discord the "feedback" as some dramatic user. Even if I ignore the language, there's not much action I can take to address the issue, whereas non-diatribe negative feedback user gave me an exact level at the bare minimum to start off at.

And it's the internet. It may not be the most common feedback, but in this day of "likes", people sure do like to hoist the latter kind of comment up for devs to see first.

Re: Despite having just 5.8% sales, over 38% of bug reports come from Linux

#245

I'm reminded of Valve talking about supporting Linux for their half-life2 engine. Their experience was that they were able to find some fabulous engine speed up improvements that they then backported to the windows version. The common thread with supporting Linux seems to be that it's not necessarily worth it from a revenue/market size point of view, but there are all kinds of intangibles that you only get by doing c…

At the coprorate level, intangibles don't help you move up the chain, unforuntately. I imaigne there are many well-intentioned devs that lack the choice to keep working on these things, or have to make other choices in the grand scheme of things.

Re: Despite having just 5.8% sales, over 38% of bug reports come from Linux

#246

When I submitted a bug to Linux distro Pop OS, it was fixed and deployed within days to all users. Can you imagine anything like that with Windows or Mac OS? We have reports how Apple silences zero day researchers instead.

Microsoft/Appple don't have nightlies. For systems as complex as that, it can take days just to land it in some dev feature branch, let alone get into into a production branch scheduled by product managers to deploy whenever.

Re: Despite having just 5.8% sales, over 38% of bug reports come from Linux

#247

This article does and doesn't mirror my experience. When the pandemic hit, I helped my now 15 year-old godson build a video game add-on as a way to stay close since we couldn't travel. For the last two years we've had a blast working on this together. The add-on has grown in popularity, and has a few dozen thousand users. Where I agree with the article, many of the complaints do come from Linux users. Almost without…

>Someone would say something like, "Don't you test your shit?!" and like keep in mind this is a free add-on for a video game.

that's always the worst. If they paid some money for this, then I can understand some anger in their investment. Here, it's literally goodwill providing this tool the complainer chose not to make themselves and they instead throw a fit like the world owes them this free labor.

I don't like using this retort, but this is exactly what the "why don't you make your own steak" sorts of replies are for.

Re: Despite having just 5.8% sales, over 38% of bug reports come from Linux

#248
post #114

This article does and doesn't mirror my experience. When the pandemic hit, I helped my now 15 year-old godson build a video game add-on as a way to stay close since we couldn't travel. For the last two years we've had a blast working on this together. The add-on has grown in popularity, and has a few dozen thousand users. Where I agree with the article, many of the complaints do come from Linux users. Almost without…

That sounds a lot like badly managed support TBH. Complaint about having to install Linux to check fix indicates that you weren't even trying to run build on Linux before releasing it, I'm not sure why were you supporting Linux at all with that kind of attitude. And I presume that vanilla game doesn't have common way to install mods and Linux version is non-existent.

>I'm not sure why were you supporting Linux at all with that kind of attitude.

it's a free add-on made alongside a 15 year old for bonding purposes. For all we know, it wasn't. And I don't think they have a duty to provide any labor that goes beyond their bonding to ensure this, let alone be yelled at for it.

Re: Despite having just 5.8% sales, over 38% of bug reports come from Linux

#249
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He actually at one point wrote that he was a reincarnation of the god Pan, so he has/had a very literal god complex, too. It's such a shame that he was the person to interpret hacker culture for those of us in the future, because he's hardly a good lens

I don’t disagree with your sentiment, but that wasn’t meant as a literal “I am the god Pan” — it was figurative, hyperbole. At least, that’s my recollection from when I read it a couple of decades ago.

I've read it more recently, and he did mean it literally. I've cut this together because it's far too long to quote en masse, but the full thing is at [1]

    Desperate for something to feed my jones, I snaffled my other sister's 
    abandoned flute. And wow! I was a natural...immediately better with it than 
    with the guitar I'd been hacking at for months. [...] This was delightful but 
    mystifying. All I'd had to do was learn to play a scale, and this amazing river 
    of music poured forth with barely an effort on my part. It seemed almost as 
    though my hands and lips had always known what to do, had been waiting for me 
    to pick up the flute. [...] I got these stunning rushes of pure timeless joy, 
    when my consciousness seemed to expand outwards from the limits of my skin to 
    fill the universe and I could no longer tell whether I was playing the music or 
    the music was playing me. Nor were these effects just going on inside my own 
    head. [...] I was walking home, idly puzzling over this peculiar incident, and 
    damn near fell over when I finally got it. That girl had been trying to cope 
    with a theophany; she had looked at me and seen a god. A particular god. And I 
    knew, suddenly, with utter shattering certainty, which one it was. And that it 
    probably was not the first time I had inadvertently triggered such an 
    experience, and would almost certainly not be the last. [...] Not that I took 
    any of it seriously as a description of the real world. It was an intellectual 
    chew-toy, perhaps at best a way of understanding the pathologies that prevented 
    human beings from living the infinitely more desirable life of reason and 
    science. Until I realized, finally, belatedly, what had been happening to me. 
    Until the Great God Pan reached out of my hindbrain and thundered "YOU!". And 
    his gift is music and his chosen instruments the pipes and flutes. And his, too 
    the power of joy; magic so strong that when it flowed out of me, even before I 
    knew what I was doing, it amazed people into awe and incoherence and poetry. 
    [...] (And, oh, yes. The first time I handled a set of pan-pipes I could play 
    them. Fluently. Effortlessly. And knew I could before I touched them.) 

[1]: http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/dancing.html

Re: Despite having just 5.8% sales, over 38% of bug reports come from Linux

#250
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds a lot like badly managed support TBH. Complaint about having to install Linux to check fix indicates that you weren't even trying to run build on Linux before releasing it, I'm not sure why were you supporting Linux at all with that kind of attitude. And I presume that vanilla game doesn't have common way to install mods and Linux version is non-existent.

>I'm not sure why were you supporting Linux at all with that kind of attitude. it's a free add-on made alongside a 15 year old for bonding purposes. For all we know, it wasn't. And I don't think they have a duty to provide any labor that goes beyond their bonding to ensure this, let alone be yelled at for it.

Correct, we never set out to run a software company... just build something my godson found fun. Figured since he was interested, he'd be motivated and he'd learn a lot along the way. A lot of what he's learnt has been social skills... not programming skills. But there was no intended support for Linux, he's 15... like he finds it fun to build things, and I'm doing the best I can to limit the tedious "edge cases" so he stays motivated to be a dev later in life.
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