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Willingness to look stupid

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Re: Willingness to look stupid

#241

Post by baobabKoodaa »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #2

> Going into an Apple store and asking for (and buying) the computer that comes in the smallest box, which I had a good reason to want at the time > The person who helped me, despite being very polite, also clearly thought I was a bozo and kept explaining things like "the size of the box and the size of the computer aren't the same". Of course I knew that, but I didn't want to say something like "I design CPUs. I und…

I'll venture a guess why they asked for the computer that comes in the smallest box. They were buying a computer as a present, and they needed to pack it for travel before unboxing.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#242

Post by dotancohen »

HeckFeck wrote: post #157
dotancohen wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Naturally, the established powers and polite society didn't find this to their liking. We all know how his story ended. Socrates was sentenced to death not for exposing how little everyone else knew. The esteemed philosopher was sentenced to death because he was deliberately annoying people - like a fly - with badgering questions that would force the questionee into a corner. Today we call this method of exposing c…

Ah, didn't expect the venerable Meletus to show up in the conversation today. How's the weather in Athens? > sentenced to death because he was deliberately annoying people I see you're still certain of Socrates' motives. When you claimed he was 'corrupting the minds of the youth' and 'denying the gods of the city' you were simply repeating the charges laid at any philosopher who threatens the powers that be. If anyon…

Actually, I haven't been to Athens since summer 2019. Lovely place, so long as you avoid the touristy places.

Though I do like your form of expressing your frustration about the trial and sentencing of Socrates at myself as though I were his prosecutor, I assure you that I'm an under-50 mortal not born of gods and not atanatos.

  > you could explain it and wouldn't find questions 'annoying'.
A question would not be annoying. Badgering, accusations, and pestering would be. And quite frankly, as we both know, every single one of us has contradictions in their beliefs and their actions. I'm not going to defend mine in public to a beggar following me around with the explicit intention of exposing my contradictions to my peers as a way to demonstrate that I (and for that matter, anybody) am not fit for the office I hold.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#243

Post by giantg2 »

I'm a natural at looking stupid. I'm always thinking outside the box and don't conform to most groupthink. My experience is that it doesnt help.

The only way to get power and money is to have people with power and money want to give it to you. For that to happen, you have to share a majority of thought process, opinion, etc.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#245

Post by wccrawford »

joeberon wrote: post #153
blfr wrote: post #130

As a man, every condescending comment you get in person only tells you one thing: your deadlift PR is still too low. Get jacked and all these problems disappear. No matter how silly your questions and objections, no matter how dumb they may think you are, all your concerns will be treated very seriously, criticism couched in most polite terms, and weird stuff written off as eccentric. (It helps to be taller, well-dre…

Are these seriously the quality of comments we are happy with on Hackernews these days?

There's an unfortunate amount of truth in it.

I noticed a marked difference in how I was treated and respected when I gained weight. When I was skinny, I was pushed around and ignored.

When I gained weight, suddenly people were wary of me and much more likely to accept my input or requirements.

I didn't even exercise. I merely gained weight.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#246

Post by gonehome »

When you ask questions you learn faster.

I think there’s some stuff here where he could have done a better job explaining why he was curious about something (the smaller computer box).

Generally people are afraid to ask questions when they’re afraid to look stupid. This creates a harmful feedback loop.

Part of the reason for this fear is cultural.

I try to go out of my way to encourage new hires to push through this fear: https://zalberico.com/essay/2017/02/21/asking-questions.html

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#247

Post by Ensorceled »

alexandrerond wrote: post #166
pydry wrote: post #55

One way to prove that he truly doesn't mind looking stupid would be to list times when he risked looking stupid... and it turns out he actually was. It's happened to all of us though we dont like to admit it. I'm sure it's happened to him too and I looked but I didn't see any of those examples listed. Giving only examples of when people thought he was dumb and it turned out he wasn't... that's kind of just a roundabo…

Totally. There's distance between: "people think I'm stupid because I'm not scared to show that I don't know about something" and some of the examples which are more along the lines of "people think I'm stupid because I act as a self-entitled genius who provides little context or reasoning behind choices and expect everyone to line up behind with no question" What is the Apple store employee supposed to do to not mak…

> The insurance dealer does his job and tries to get a higher premium? Not surprised.

This is actually an example of where the author IS stupid. You will often be found "at fault" in cases where you are not actually at fault (the other driver lies better than your truth) and there are many cases (at least in Ontario) where you are legislatively at fault even if you did nothing out of the ordinary (making a left turn while overtaking traffic attempts to pass rather than yield). That the broker was trying to protect them from this isn't even a conflict of interest for the broker.

I wonder how many insurance brokers encounter the "I'm such an amazing driver, I don't really need insurance." macho man ... I'm presuming the broker, at least initially, assumed the author was one of "those drivers" and not "stupid".

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#248

Post by k__ »

You can spin this endlessly.

You look stulid and are stupid.

You look stupid but aren't.

You look smart but aren't.

You look smart and are smart, but people think you're just virtue signaling. But you know that virture signaling actually saves you time discussing why your aren't stupid while still looking so.

etc. pp.

In my opinion, real gain in looking stupid is when you actually are and then know how to accept valid critique, or at least try to understand where it comes from before you know it's valid.

Because then you actually learn something that could improve your situation.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#249

Post by 323 »

Grustaf wrote: post #180
barrenko wrote: post #133

This is a whole thing, like talking about money, people have all kinds of emotions about this. Reminds me of Nassim Nicholas Taleb and his practice of being obviously arrogant to assholes.

Nassim Nicholas Taleb is simply arrogant.

In his and Wolfram case it's justified.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#250

Post by bena »

lolc wrote: post #29
sillysaurusx wrote: post #2

> Going into an Apple store and asking for (and buying) the computer that comes in the smallest box, which I had a good reason to want at the time > The person who helped me, despite being very polite, also clearly thought I was a bozo and kept explaining things like "the size of the box and the size of the computer aren't the same". Of course I knew that, but I didn't want to say something like "I design CPUs. I und…

I wondered about that story and concluded that the author knew which computer they wanted. They also knew that this computer came in the smallest box. So they only had to give that second bit of information to get what they wanted. It is a bit condescending in my view to withhold that information from the clerk. But then again, I'm only making assumptions. Also, I've done similar things where I refused to let on my i…

Yeah, I went buy a tablet and I wanted a specific form factor. So when the retail worker asked me what I wanted, I told them the specific product. They mentioned other models that were newer, faster, better, etc. And I simply told them that I was looking for one I could fit in my hand by basically palming it. (Being in person, I could just hold up my hand and say "hold it like this").

Once I explained that, I was able to get what I wanted with no more questions. Now that they knew why I wanted what I wanted, they also knew what information was relevant to me. And I had already chosen the best model they had in that form factor.

Communication should be simple, direct, and complete. That's where I don't care if I "look stupid". I'll go over basics if there's a chance someone doesn't know the basics. Because you can say, "Oh I'm aware of X", but if you aren't and I assume you are, you may be too embarrassed to bring that up because you're afraid I think you're stupid if you don't know it.

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