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Ubuntu 21.10

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Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#241

Post by qwerty456127 »

poisonborz wrote: post #83
aborsy wrote: post #12

Over a decade of Ubuntu use, could not be happier! I remember in 2000s, I had to edit /etc/ text files to set up internet etc. Nowadays everything works out of box. All sorts of peripherals and hardware is recognized automatically. High quality free open source software is available for most stuff I need. The freedom to choose software and customize Linux, if required, is amazing! Am I missing anything ignoring close…

- About 90% of the (GUI) software ever developed? I'm happy to hear that there are quality Linux alternatives nowadays, but there's just many order of magnitudes more choice on Windows (and far less, but still more on Mac). For a lot of categories, this might change in the next decade (Electron and other cross-platform frameworks, tech like Proton) but for things like media editing or even image viewers, or until the…

> About 90% of the (GUI) software ever developed? I'm happy to hear that there are quality Linux alternatives nowadays, but there's just many order of magnitudes more choice on Windows

Most of the people don't need this though. I've migrated many individuals and middle offices from Windows to Ubuntu (for myself I prefer Manjaro though) starting from 2007. They only use Firefox/Chrome, Skype/Telegram, Thunderbird, LibreOffice, PDF&picture viewers and VLC (so it's not even about alternatives - all the essential apps already are cross-platform and even easier to install/update on Linux) and never asked any questions - everything feels intuitive and works great. WiFi used to be hard to set-up in 2007-2009 but not anymore. Printing and scanning works slightly unstable with some printers (mostly because they go to sleep and disappear or stop working in Ubuntu). The only Windows app I really miss on Linux is Paint.Net - to me it seems the ultimate perfect non-professional graphics editor while its Linux clone (Pinta) is slightly crappy, although does the job generally and I still am very grateful it exists. If only Linux also had full Visual Studio and Adobe Illustrator+Photoshop it would be hard for me to name a reason to use Windows at all. Most of the new apps I encountered during the recent years (e.g. Obsidian, Typora, MS Teams, etc.) just use Electron and work seamlessly on Linux as well as Windows and Mac this way (I know MS Teams is deprecating Electron and worry about this). The situation with games has also changed (to good) significantly during the recent years AFAIK and probably is even better than on the Mac OS now.

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#242

Post by curt15 »

Chyzwar wrote: post #233
mixmastamyk wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with snap is not the software selection, but how obnoxious it is on the system.

If you want to solve security, portability, and distribution in proper way, you will end with something similar. Security: Snap are running in sandbox by default and have proper support for system permissions. They are installed in user home directory. There is central store that allow for reporting and regularly perform security scanning. Portability: Snaps works on most distros. They allow building once and distrib…

>Portability: Snaps works on most distros.

The sandbox doesn't work on any distros that aren't using the latest AppArmor, such as Fedora and derivatives.

Flatpak tries to solve the same problem at least for desktop apps, but with a few key differences:

- The sandbox is implemented entirely using user namespaces, not using Apparmor or Selinux, hence works on basically any modern distro.

- The user remains firmly in the driver's seat in terms of when applications get updated. Yes, you can enable automatic updates, but unlike with snaps, you can also opt out.

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#244

Post by qwerty456127 »

poisonborz wrote: post #83
aborsy wrote: post #12

Over a decade of Ubuntu use, could not be happier! I remember in 2000s, I had to edit /etc/ text files to set up internet etc. Nowadays everything works out of box. All sorts of peripherals and hardware is recognized automatically. High quality free open source software is available for most stuff I need. The freedom to choose software and customize Linux, if required, is amazing! Am I missing anything ignoring close…

- About 90% of the (GUI) software ever developed? I'm happy to hear that there are quality Linux alternatives nowadays, but there's just many order of magnitudes more choice on Windows (and far less, but still more on Mac). For a lot of categories, this might change in the next decade (Electron and other cross-platform frameworks, tech like Proton) but for things like media editing or even image viewers, or until the…

> Trivial app portability - I absolutely love the concept of portable Windows software. Have a single folder with configuration and binaries, that can run for sure anywhere

The Linux way of installing the apps is merely a convenient tradition. You can still put the app files anywhere and run. It will put its configuration files wherever the developer wanted them (conventionally the app dir is meant to be immutable and the files are meant to be stored under the user's home dir though). In fact many apps (incl. Chrome and PyCharm actually are installed the Windows way under /opt which is an equivalent to C:\Program Files\).

> there are attempts (Snap)

I actually hate this concept because it encourages duplication (same program files installed under different users) and adds performance overhead (often significant). So, when no traditional package is available I rather get an AppImage and just drop it in \opt (the downside is it won't automatically appear in the menus though so I have to create .desktop files and update the app itself manually).

This also seems very bad for the office setting. I have dozens of employees set-up on dozens Ubuntu computers in the office and want a single-install/update to apply to everyone seamlessly. Now I see Firefox moved to Snap in Ubuntu 21.10 and this scares the shit out of me, but it's supposed to be possible to force it the traditional way in 21.10. They say they will move it to snap only in 22.04 though so I will probably abandon Ubuntu and switch to some distro which is not corrupted by this bullshit. This is sad as Ubuntu still is the most polished and muggle-friendly out of the box, their GNOME mod in particular.

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#245

Post by dagw »

bluepoint wrote: post #211
beebmam wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For my work PC, I use Ubuntu, period. Too many third party apps just don't work very well outside of the Ubuntu ecosystem, apps which I need in order to function in my workplace. I'd probably use something like Arch or rolling my own for work if these apps weren't necessary!

Could you elaborate? Which apps run in Ubuntu and not in Arch?

In theory you can probably get most apps working on Arch, but if you want support and an easier life it's generally best to stick with the official packages from the developer which are almost always packaged for Ubuntu and RHEL only.

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#246

Post by qwerty456127 »

> support for Bluetooth LDAC and AptX codecs

Hooray!

> Firefox version 93 is now seeded as a snap by default

Fooooooo!

They say they will still support the classic deb as an option in 21.10 but are going to move it to snap-only in 22.04 though so I will probably abandon Ubuntu and switch to some distro which is not corrupted by this bullshit. I have dozens of employees set-up on dozens Ubuntu computers in the office and want a single-install/update to apply to everyone seamlessly, not having to install/update an app separately under every user on every PC. Snap also notably doesn't work with LightDM's guest user mode (which I found the coolest feature introduced in Ubuntu after the Unity desktop).

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#247

Post by V-2 »

shock wrote: post #166
V-2 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the freedom of "hacking" your system one of the main reasons for using Linux to begin with?

You're free to "hack" it as much as you wish, but when you break it(if you don't know what you're doing) you get to keep all the pieces. And the blame.

I guess it depends what you consider as "hacking", exactly. To me "hacking" implies "customizing, but not as the makers had intended".

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#248

Post by datenarsch »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #244
poisonborz wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- About 90% of the (GUI) software ever developed? I'm happy to hear that there are quality Linux alternatives nowadays, but there's just many order of magnitudes more choice on Windows (and far less, but still more on Mac). For a lot of categories, this might change in the next decade (Electron and other cross-platform frameworks, tech like Proton) but for things like media editing or even image viewers, or until the…

> Trivial app portability - I absolutely love the concept of portable Windows software. Have a single folder with configuration and binaries, that can run for sure anywhere The Linux way of installing the apps is merely a convenient tradition. You can still put the app files anywhere and run. It will put its configuration files wherever the developer wanted them (conventionally the app dir is meant to be immutable an…

> The Linux way of installing the apps is merely a convenient tradition. You can still put the app files anywhere and run. It will put its configuration files wherever the developer wanted them (conventionally the app dir is meant to be immutable and the files are meant to be stored under the user's home dir though). In fact many apps (incl. Chrome and PyCharm actually are installed the Windows way under /opt which is an equivalent to C:\Program Files\).

I don't think he was disputing the technical possibility of it. It doesn't help him from a user perspective though to know that this is merely a convention and not a technical limitation.

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#249

Post by TingPing »

pjmlp wrote: post #224
mdp2021 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trivial app portability The "registry" is not an issue anymore?

Apparently an idea that GNOME thought it was worthwhile to copy.

DConf is great and not a 1:1. Also with flatpak apps store plain text configs privately and dconf is more of a system store now.

Re: Ubuntu 21.10

#250

Post by TingPing »

albertopv wrote: post #223

At home I use Ubuntu and it just works. Mostly, because it can't recognise correct external monitor resolution, it's stuck to fhd instead of qhd, which with windows 10 job pc works like a charm.I don't have the time to troubleshoot these issues anymore. Other things works, really zero issues (wifi, bt...)

Your monitor is probably broken with bad EDID, Linux just respects that more. Can always override it.
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