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China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

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Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#241

Post by baybal2 »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #236
baybal2 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a humiliation > nor is it really all that humiliating. This is exactly the line of reasoning which lead the free world into this predicament.

>This is exactly the line of reasoning which lead the free world into this predicament. The predicament where an organisation can't offend 1.4 billion people and push an unstable region further into instability. There are definitely battles that need to be had with the CCP, but this argument of semantics isn't one of them.

It exactly is. You will never defeat an enemy if you can't defeat it in your own head.

It's your Resolve. The Resolve is needed to strike an enemy.

A nation ridden with "deeply concerneds," and "strongly condemners" cannot come to consensus, and understand that an action is needed.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#242

Post by plantain00 »

yostrovs wrote: post #201
WhySoGullible wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is one of the higher quality, long-term studies conducted by Harvard's Ash Center. You can read their full methodology below. [1] https://ash.harvard.edu/news/ash-center-researchers-release-... [2][pdf]: https://ash.harvard.edu/files/ash/files/final_policy_brief_7...

I downloaded the report. It's a survey that does not seem to have had some way to overcome the reluctance to criticize when criticizing is against the law.

What's the consequence of criticizing the CCP in China? Which law it will violate? There's a more famous woman criticizing the CCP in China(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fang_Fang), any consequence? No, no consequence, then why ordinary people are afraid of criticizing the CCP in China? especially for only offline investigation rather than published publication?

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#243

Post by Cosmin_C »

ilyich wrote: post #233
FatalLogic wrote: post #5

Analysis and explanation (from 2020, but the issues are unchanged): https://qz.com/1908836/china-blocks-wikimedia-from-un-agency... Creative Commons comment on the most recent blocking: "As in 2020, China’s statement falsely suggested that the Wikimedia Foundation was spreading disinformation via the independent, volunteer-led Wikimedia Taiwan chapter"[0] [0] https://creativecommons.org/2021/10/06/creative-commons-re…

Wikipedia is full of disinformation on topics regarding politics and history. It is a good source of knowledge about mathematics, astronomy, biology, physics etc, but if you want an unbiased opinion on any political/historical issue you have to avoid Wikipedia. It is packed with disinformation not only about China/Taiwan, but about any country whose government and/or population is not a faithful believer in the dogma…

Yes, I am sure that the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre article [1] is full of misinformation according to China, seeing that they actively pursue people who speak up about it where they have jurisdiction and those people are "disappeared" or worse.

I'm not saying that there is no bias in the wikipedia articles, it's bound to exist seeing it's being written on by humans and bias is inherent to humans. However, the bias on peer-reviewed articles is much diminished compared to a unique party bias regarding issues they want swept under the rug.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests...

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#244

Post by nextaccountic »

x0x0 wrote: post #235
michaelsbradley wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

downvoted for lack of evidence/examples.

Nazis: https://www.wired.com/story/one-womans-mission-to-rewrite-na... Then there's this: > Most of Scottish Wikipedia Written By American in Mangled English https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxqy8x/most-of-scottish-wiki... Some examples of the writing here: https://twitter.com/NeerajKA/status/1298579510581960705 And finally, I remember some translated wikipedia language was mostly written by like 10 people and went ki…

Those two are examples of lone individuals spreading misinformation, but not a concerted effort of Wikimedia itself or one of its chapters

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#245

Post by jikbd »

schleck8 wrote: post #231
Fricken wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The total population of those 3 regions amounts to 50 million, less than 4% of China.

And yet Xinjiang makes up for 20 % of arrests in the entire country. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/19/chinas-treatment-of...

Have you ever heard of the FBI crime statistics?

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#246

Post by plantain00 »

beaunative wrote: post #134
Ericson2314 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From the US perspective, why would they go out of their way to call Taiwan its own country when neither government, on either side of the Strait, was interested in that? :) I feel like this the same sort of thinking as tech debt. Names? Who cares! Everyone knows what the situation is on the ground. In my view, norms have to be actively upheld, even especially if you are on "Team 'rule of law'". If the thing is a st…

Taiwan is actually an state, but China don't recognize it the way we didn't recognize the IS. Of course, Taiwan is in much better situation than the IS, but the underlying logic is the same. A state government don't recognize other states just because they are a state.

If you are right, they should change their constitution, now their official name is still Republic of China(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan).

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#247

Post by thedudeabides5 »

epgui wrote: post #196
zeckalpha wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in Taiwan!

Is Taiwan China though? (mostly non-rhetorical, honest question)

No, it is not.

The people of Taiwan don't want any part of CCP China, and in spite of a lot of noise about "One China Policy" the only people arguing right now for reunification are Xi and the cadres.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#248

Post by lelandfe »

wolverine876 wrote: post #128
lelandfe wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The easiest way to inject a propaganda idea into most people’s minds is to let it go through the medium of an entertainment picture when they do not realize that they are being propagandized. - Elmer Davis, director of the US Office of War Information

Where is that quote from? I don't want to ironically get caught by propaganda (or misinformation) myself.

Fun one to track down. Had to hop through a couple papers and books, but this is what everything winds up referencing:

> It was an organization designed not only to disseminate information and to clarify issues but also to arouse support for particular symbols and ideas. "The easiest way to inject a propaganda idea into most people's minds," said Davis, "is to let it go in through the medium of an entertainment picture when they do not realize that they are being propagandized."

Koppes, C. and Black, G., 1977. What to Show the World: The Office of War Information and Hollywood, 1942-1945. The Journal of American History, 64(1), p.2, https://www.jstor.org/stable/1888275>

That paper then points to this ultimate source:

> Elmer Davis to Byron Price, Jan. 27, 1943, Box 3, Records of the Office of War Information, RG 208 (Federal Records Center, Suitland, Md.)

Dead end. I emailed the Archives but the entire facility is closed because of the pandemic. I also tried tracking down the paper's authors but both are retired.

The document likely lives somewhere in this trove: https://catalog.archives.gov/search?q=%22Records%20of%20the%...

Anyway, I'm satisfied it's a real quote (both authors are reputable) though I definitely want the surrounding context now :)

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#249

Post by epgui »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #199
epgui wrote: post #104

(Disclaimer: I'm a franco-Canadian of mixed European descent.) This article doesn't give China a great image, sure. I can think of a million criticisms to levy against China. However, I feel like a lot of the comments aren't just criticizing China, they seem to be outright anti-China. I wonder if, in the grand scheme of things, Americans/Westerners might be feeling threatened by the shift in power. I wonder if Americ…

Does the CCP get much right?

Setting aside political beliefs/leanings, it would be very difficult to argue that they don't get a lot of things right.

This type of rhetorical question or quip is a pretty good example of the mentality I was drawing attention to in my comment: it's entirely possible to think that something is generally bad (eg.: you might think the CCP is, on balance, not great or even terrible) while also recognizing that there are positive aspects to it.

Recognizing the pros of a thing doesn't mean you have to forget about the cons. Being able to hold both in one's head at the same time also helps formulate better criticism of the bad things, as such criticism often becomes more precise.

The heuristic of "CCP/China = bad" may very well be correct in a particular situation, but such heuristics are a very dangerous mode of thinking.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#250

Post by x0x0 »

nextaccountic wrote: post #244
x0x0 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nazis: https://www.wired.com/story/one-womans-mission-to-rewrite-na... Then there's this: > Most of Scottish Wikipedia Written By American in Mangled English https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxqy8x/most-of-scottish-wiki... Some examples of the writing here: https://twitter.com/NeerajKA/status/1298579510581960705 And finally, I remember some translated wikipedia language was mostly written by like 10 people and went ki…

Those two are examples of lone individuals spreading misinformation, but not a concerted effort of Wikimedia itself or one of its chapters

Using wikipedia.

Wikipedia can't disclaim the information on wikipedia.org if they want to be a credible organization.

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