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Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

nytimes.com

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Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#241

Post by nfw2 »

wolverine876 wrote: post #85
dstaley wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When was the last time they created a new category? Almost every current Apple product (save the HomePod) is the category defining product of it's class. The iPhone, the iPad, the M1 MacBooks, the Apple Watch, the AirPods, the Apple TV, the iMac, and the AirTags are all essentially best-in-class, and the standards-bearer for the category.

I mean, what new product categories has Apple created (or defined) like they did with the iPhone? Phones, tablets, laptops, wearables, etc. are old news. AirTags are pretty cool, but a small category.

Fwiw, AirTags convinced me to get my first iphone

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#243

Post by samhwr »

luffapi wrote: post #240
samhwr wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure why having the money is relevant. Plenty of companies, people, and governments ‘have the money’. The question is why it is specifically Apple who are obliged to provide welfare for this person at their own expense. I have huge sympathy for human beings who are unable to work, and a humane society should provide for them, but I don’t see why it falls to Apple. This kind of populism (“person X or company Y…

> I’m not sure why having the money is relevant. Plenty of companies, people, and governments ‘have the money’. And they are beholden to the public that allows them to keep that money. The government should absolutely be doing more to help disadvantaged people (and everyone else). That doesn’t make Apple a good place to work. They already have exploited child labor to build their fortunes. Apple is rotten to the core…

Yes, I’m not a fan of lots of what Apple does, but I don’t see how these generalised complaints about Apple are related to this case. I don’t think your comments justify the notion that Apple is obliged to hire people at a loss to provide some form of ad hoc social welfare.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#244

Post by luffapi »

samhwr wrote: post #243
luffapi wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not sure why having the money is relevant. Plenty of companies, people, and governments ‘have the money’. And they are beholden to the public that allows them to keep that money. The government should absolutely be doing more to help disadvantaged people (and everyone else). That doesn’t make Apple a good place to work. They already have exploited child labor to build their fortunes. Apple is rotten to the core…

Yes, I’m not a fan of lots of what Apple does, but I don’t see how these generalised complaints about Apple are related to this case. I don’t think your comments justify the notion that Apple is obliged to hire people at a loss to provide some form of ad hoc social welfare.

I really don’t think it’s that complex. Apple has a history of unethical, illegal and unsavory employment practices.

That’s a given though. My comment was about how HN jumped on this aspect of the story as it loves to punch down.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#245

Post by anonporridge »

nosianu wrote: post #177
anonporridge wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even so much about the actual cost, as much as the absurd inefficiency and waste of human potential.

When I first visited and then lived in the US for about a decade (coming from Europe) I was surprised about what I perceived as purely a jobs program kind of jobs. Examples: People at road construction sites holding "Stop" signs, packagers in supermarkets, money collectors in toll booths (even before electronic devices, just using a machine was easily and cheaply possible and frequently and successfully used elsewher…

Interesting observation.

I think the ultimate truth is that we humans are all just super fucking tribal. For all our chest thumping and moralistic justifying about how our philosophy and way of life are better than everyone else, it really all comes down to "I want my tribe to be the most powerful" and we'll sacrifice any and all of our ideals to make that happen. Or maybe more accurately, those tribes that actually hold strong to their ideals don't have what it takes to become the most powerful.

How that game between tribes plays out is a never ending cat and mouse game of shifting narrative, demographics, environmental conditions, technology, and tribal affiliations.

"Capitalism is better than socialism/communism" was only ever a narrative to justify why we in the west were top dogs getting fat and happy while those in the east were struggling to survive. The truth of why that happened is a lot more complicated.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#246

Post by mikelevins »

Bud wrote: post #225
mikelevins wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we're picking nits, whether a pair of words used as a single lexeme should be hyphenated depends on context and style standards. For example, Apple's style standards for technical publications in the 1980s and 1990s dictated that two words treated together as a modifier (an adjective or adverb) of some other lexeme should be hyphenated. That's how "de facto" is used in the OP's text. "De facto" is Latin for "in…

I didn't say "allowable". I said "correctly"; it doesn't mean what GP appears to think it means. As for whether de facto specifically is hyphenated, go look it up yourself. Latin phrases are not hyphenated; that's generally agreed. This is because they are easily seen to hang together as a single unit without the added help of a hyphen, so the hyphen is redundant in this case. But yes, I am aware that most pairs of w…

I looked it up for myself and found that different editors take different positions. To quote from one:

"In some scholarly articles, you’ll find hyphenated Latin expressions (such as ex-post-facto research design or status-quo bias). Does that mean those journals’ editors or proofreaders did slapdash work? No. It’s not incorrect to hyphenate Latin phrases, but it’s unnecessary. However, some style guides may recommend hyphenating all Latin phrases used as adjectives (I’m yet to find a major one that does, though)."

You've made it clear what the standard is when you're the editor, which is fine with me.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#247

Post by ethbr0 »

stickfigure wrote: post #197
reaperducer wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're human beings.

What if it was 30-50 minutes longer? 3-5 hours longer? Yes, there are human beings on the other side of our daily transactions that should always be treated with respect. However, these are transactions , not social calls. I live 10 minutes away from an Ace hardware, 20 minutes away from Home Depot. I almost always go to Ace and pay a few dollars more because when I walk in the door, somebody immediately asks me if t…

> Sales is a communication-heavy job.

I think this is the issue in a nutshell. And as a salesperson, you don't get to define the method by which customers want to interact with you.

They're the ones with the money. You're the one trying to get the money. They get to have you meet them where they prefer.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#248

Post by keyb0ardninja »

FFRefresh wrote: post #102

There are a few bigger stories at play here (amongst many) that I see this article as an instance of: 1. Cultural 'meme' & trend that has dramatically spread throughout mostly american, urban, educated, elite/elite-adjacent spaces over the last 7-9 years that lionizes and rewards those who can claim they are a 'victim'. This meme favors certain immutable characteristics as inherently providing victimhood status. If y…

Jonathan Haidt has been talking about exactly this issue for many years now.

Here's is one of many of his videos on YouTube dealing exactly with this topic: https://youtu.be/jQcDw1r1lGw

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#249

Post by Tommah »

samhwr wrote: post #220
s5300 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religious groups typically look after their own. Take care of the poor, needy, and disabled. For quite a long time, most US states were essentially religious areas/boundaries, which is why much of New England is seen as quite puritanical to this day. Go read about the history of Mormons and Utah. The reason the surrounding borders are so weird is because the U.S. gov essentially tried to thwart a larger land grab by…

> Their tenants were largely about taking care of each other. For what it’s worth, you almost certainly mean ‘tenets’. I don’t know why, but this malapropism has become increasingly common. Tenants are people who rent a property.

> I don’t know why

Both words come from the Latin tenere, to hold. A tenant is someone who holds a lease. A tenet is a belief that is held.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#250

Post by ddingus »

sidkshatriya wrote: post #121
ekianjo wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Providing an iPad to type messages on is a reasonable accommodation Doesn't that make communication slower? When I want to buy something, I certainly don't want to start chatting on a tablet to get my point across. It seems like a poor choice of position for that employee.

It can be difficult to communicate this way but I think there is a social benefit to making the extra effort for people with disabilities. Often you don’t choose to be disabled. What if you were unlucky to be disabled? Would you like your opportunities to be thoroughly reduced in life? I try to make an effort because I could have been in that employee’s shoes. I am lucky… this is the least I can do.

I agree. My reasons are more selfish and basic:

Any of us could be disabled or our person may be a target for discrimination or worse.

Could be me.

And I make sure while it is not me I can increase the net happiness in the world.

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