So what's considered the cool stack right now? Being a PHP developer who built my own web app, NannyLogic, that's making money and love it, but also being fairly new to programming, I'm not really aware of what is or isn't cool in hacker circles but I'd be interested to learn new things.
Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites
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Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites
#242I think this shows how much HN is a bubble in itself. Most discussions here happen around new/exciting/cool/weird technology. And don't get me wrong, I love those discussions! That's why I come here! But reality outside of this bubble is people building and maintaining web apps as efficiently as possible and PHP hasn't stopped being very efficient. On the contrary, it's getting better with time. Interestingly enough,…
How much HN is a bubble in itself. When interviewing developers, I always ask about their experience in handling sites large enough to comprise a farm, not just a single server. In all my years of searching, I've only ever come across one developer with such experience. But here on HN, it makes it look like the multiple load balanced web and app servers we've got across multiple tiers, not to mention Docker and k8s,…
I'm tempted to go even further and guess the truth is that even many of todays actual cloud deployments could probably have been better served by two to 7 beefy servers - or even a couple of virtul servers in many cases.
Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites
#243I think this shows how much HN is a bubble in itself. Most discussions here happen around new/exciting/cool/weird technology. And don't get me wrong, I love those discussions! That's why I come here! But reality outside of this bubble is people building and maintaining web apps as efficiently as possible and PHP hasn't stopped being very efficient. On the contrary, it's getting better with time. Interestingly enough,…
I tell people all the time about how good the Ruby job market is. Lots of opportunities and not a ton of people to fill them for some reason. People from other languages don’t seem to want to believe it.
In India most of the startups are using Java (springboot) and typescript.
I am actually finiding it difficult to get good paying jobs in Ruby and thinking of moving to Typescript.
Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's incredibly hard to find good PHP developers. I just inherited a PHP project that it's a nightmare. It doesn't make any sense. It works on PHP 7.3 but the quality is worse than the old PHP 4 stuff. It is so easy to write good PHP code nowadays but most devs don't do it. They just go for the old ways, with spaghetti code, no clear architecture, etc, because it just works. They don't have to think, just type. Thats…
> It's incredibly hard to find good PHP developers. But... is it much easier to find good devs in any other tech stack? I don't see it, personally. My ruby friends complain it's hard to find ruby devs at all, and harder to find good ones. I do see a lot of JS/node folks that get accepted as 'good', but when the rubber hits the road, the code is often still... meh - cut corners, SO copy/paste, etc. I see bad node and…
You don't see as much bad python code as you see bad PHP code. PHP has no entry barrier. You can just start typing and things start working.
Compare that with deploying a hello word website in python, java or elixir.
Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites
#245ColdFusion is java, so those numbers should be added to the java line instead of broken out.
Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites
#246ColdFusion is java, so those numbers should be added to the java line instead of broken out.
Arguably, so is scala.
Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well don't forget the biases that are encoded in these percentages (I'm presuming these stats are not normalized by throughput, or revenue). A ton of these websites are basically "some small-time coding contractor is contracted to build a site for X commerce business that "needs a website"" (think: the pizzeria down the corner, or the dry cleaners). If there's even any interactivity at all, it needs to be cookie-cutt…
It might be 'bias', but if it was as easy to do this in other stacks, wouldn't we see hundreds of thousands of cookie-cutter/copy/paste sites in, say, .net? Or rails? Or node? That this is 'easy' with a PHP base speaks to the fact that many other stacks seemingly ignore the needs of many markets. I seem to recall a perl CMS - was is movable type? - that required mod_perl. This certainly gave it a perf boost against o…
But also consider that most of these projects are cost centers. Hn very much biases for people who are using tech as revenue (or at least core-value, in the case of not-necessairly-for-profit projects) props. It's understandable that the communities and tools should be orthogonal.
Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's incredibly hard to find good PHP developers. I just inherited a PHP project that it's a nightmare. It doesn't make any sense. It works on PHP 7.3 but the quality is worse than the old PHP 4 stuff. It is so easy to write good PHP code nowadays but most devs don't do it. They just go for the old ways, with spaghetti code, no clear architecture, etc, because it just works. They don't have to think, just type. Thats…
These days if you're not using PSR4 configured auto loading with all your code in the src or tests directory and a separate public folder then you're not really qualified to work on PHP at a professional level. I highly encourage using this template for all new projects https://github.com/thephpleague/skeleton
I just had my worst PHP dev experience in 5 years of coding. Literally. I just had to leave the office. I'm on my way home and still feel fatigued.
The project not only doesn't use composer (well, it does now because I needed some components) but it has the same third party components duplicated or triplicated around the application. It looks like they downloaded them Everytime they needed them. Some of them are modified to make them work on newer versions of PHP. And the views and the logic are mixed together in big 4k lines files with no functions. Html, js, PHP, tens of SQL queries on loops, all mixed together.
It's so bad it looks that it was made like this on purpose.
The funny thing is a pretty important project for a pretty important and unique customer.
Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wait a minute... You guys don't test in PROD? LOL... j/k. :P Architecture design and Agile now compensate for the traditional compile/test procedures... DEV > STAGE > PROD When it's practiced with discipline it works well, catching most issues prior to the system going down anyway on deployments to PROD :)
> Wait a minute... You guys don't test in PROD? Of course I do. No other environment is identical to prod, real data, real users, real scale.
All depends on the nature of your app of course... But I've managed to do pretty accurate simulations with modern tools in Stage environments, and to regularly sync my STAGE and PROD environments on high traffic sites with safer test results... Different strokes I guess.
Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
A search, right now, on Upwork does the following: PHP - 12316 jobs Ruby - 1175 jobs Java - 5902 jobs Python - 10051 jobs .NET - 2353 jobs Adding a few of the others: C# - 2562 jobs (I suspect those .NET also can be interchanged with C#) C++ - 1711 jobs Go - 3925 jobs Rust - 382 jobs Feel free to double check my results. Like it or not, Upwork is the largest freelancer site.
Well to counter your anecdotal search Linkedin shows 31226 jobs for Ruby (U.S) vs 22208 for PHP. I think PHP isn't really strong in North American but more in Europe.
Anecdotal search? How so, please explain.