Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

When patents attack Android

googleblog.blogspot.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 291 posts

Re: When patents attack Android

#241

Post by moultano »

davidu wrote: post #152
moultano wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if the ethical position is also strategic, it is no longer ethical? That's a pretty high standard for what constitutes ethical behavior. >If they thought patents were more strategic for them, they wouldn't be anti-patent. This needs a gigantic [citation needed] next to it.

You believe that being pro IPP or anti IPP is an ethical position? I am pro IP protection (IPP) and but I strongly dislike the existing IPP system we have.

What do you mean? Any normative statement is ultimately an ethical one, so any position on the proper use and law of patents is an ethical position as well.

Re: When patents attack Android

#242

Post by billmcneale »

yanw wrote: post #77

It's sad that pro-patent asstroturf hijacks serious anti-patent discussions on HN, it's obvious that the HN sentiment towards software patents is that of disgust, yet when a passionate and rare post like this makes headlines somehow a pro-patent sentiment creeps out. Software patents are a joke, just listen to this now famous 'This American Life' piece: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/441/w...…

> Software patents are a joke, just listen to this now famous 'This American Life' piece: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/441/w....

This is a fantastic episode but you don't seem to have paid much attention: it's a piece against patent trolls, not patents.

Patent trolls need to go, but the jury is still out on software patents.

Re: When patents attack Android

#243

Post by wbienek »

Steko wrote: post #235
nitrogen wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative to patents is either less innovation (see countries with weak IP protection) or massive secrecy. I think you'd be hard pressed to prove that weak IP protection leads to less innovation. I'd argue that it's equally as likely that the causation is reversed; that is, countries that do more innovating will eventually have stronger IP protection, whether the actual innovators want it or not. Massive secrec…

I think it's trivial to say that weak IP protection would lead to less innovation with simple counterfactuals. Let's go back a few years and remove all IP protections for media. Does Avatar still get a half billion dollar budget to get made? "Massive secrecy is the current state of things even with patents. " This is just arguing degrees. Whatever it's at now, I think the alternative is far more massive secrecy then…

Your mixing ip protection with software patents. Avatar is protected by copyright. Nobody disputes the need for that. Even hardware patents are often fine. To "patent" the idea that (and this is one of many examples" ) you can buy something with only "one click" is silly. There are probably patents on filling list boxes, ordering checkboxes in thee columns, goofy crap like that. This is why HN people (many of them programmers like me abhor software patents. )

Patenting a specific very complex algorithm -specifically- might be ok, but general ideas are not.

Re: When patents attack Android

#244

Post by davidu »

moultano wrote: post #241
davidu wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You believe that being pro IPP or anti IPP is an ethical position? I am pro IP protection (IPP) and but I strongly dislike the existing IPP system we have.

What do you mean? Any normative statement is ultimately an ethical one, so any position on the proper use and law of patents is an ethical position as well.

You're conflating two issues. An individual can be in support of protecting intellectual property and against our current laws that implement said protection.

Re: When patents attack Android

#245

Post by fredliu »

pro- or anti-patent aside, this post sounds to me more like Google is really not confident in winning the current lawsuits around Android against its competitors.

As this blog is definitely not just a random rant against patent from some random lawyer. Its intention is more interesting. Is Google crying out loud just because it sees the patent system unjust? or is it really because they believe they are gonna lose most of their android related lawsuits, so they want to cry "its unfair!" earlier before the final whistle? just a thought...

Re: When patents attack Android

#246

Post by stumm »

funkah wrote: post #23

I keep seeing this idea that Apple is filing patent lawsuits because they are afraid of their competitors and their business is on the verge of collapse, and I just don't understand. Their business is better than ever, breaking records every quarter. I think maybe people are reading too much into market-share figures, or projecting their wishes onto reality. Also, did Google not just try to buy the Nortel patents? We…

I'm not saying your conclusions are wrong, but Microsoft is also setting records every quarter, yet I think many would be skeptical about microsoft's future.

Re: When patents attack Android

#247

Post by flocial »

This is wonderful actually. I don't believe Google's motives are altruistic for a minute but the only way to make this debate stick is by having one angry giant of a corporation against it and lucky for everyone Google is the one.

The system is broken but at the same time I suppose we need patents in some form at least for hardware. Apple couldn't make phones if it wasn't for innovative suppliers. The only thing between them going it alone and taking orders from Apple are patents. It's a bit tricky because if this patent battle plays out, Apple, Microsoft, and HP/Palm would be the only players able to make smartphones on their own without fear of patent suits. That's a near monopoly.

It's enough of a tricky debate and politics usually favors entrenched interests of large corporations. Despite Google's clout they couldn't match the sheer magnitude of Apple, Microsoft, and others. Plus, Google has always had an antagonistic relationship with government, since government keeps trying to pry sensitive personal information from Google.

Re: When patents attack Android

#248

Post by Steko »

recoiledsnake wrote: post #231
Steko wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad that namecalling posts like this get upvoted because they echo the "general sentiment" of HN. Herd mentality != right.

This is illuminating in a way regarding HN. Regardless of the arguments on patents, there are 2 large contingents on HN, Apple supporters and Google supporters. Thus if this were Google Vs. MS or Apple Vs.MS(with the same arguments like patents(, the arguments and modding would be too predictable... just bash MS regardless(they can't innovte so they sue) and move on with the upvotes for pro-Apple/Google comments and…

Agree with most here here but I think we should break people out into 5 categories for these threads:

Apple zealots

Mostly rational people who prefer iOS

Mostly rational people who like both

Mostly rational people who prefer Google

Android zealots

There should be some way algorithmically to determine the people who are in the extreme categories, say...

extremism quotient:= (|upv| + |dwnv|) / max (1,|net score|)

Then if that exceeds some threshold over a certain period the person's votes could be ignored or diluted.

Re: When patents attack Android

#249

Post by moultano »

davidu wrote: post #244
moultano wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? Any normative statement is ultimately an ethical one, so any position on the proper use and law of patents is an ethical position as well.

You're conflating two issues. An individual can be in support of protecting intellectual property and against our current laws that implement said protection.

I agree. I didn't say otherwise. My assertion is that Google's position is still an ethical one even though it is also strategic.

Re: When patents attack Android

#250

Post by [deleted] »

econgeeker wrote: post #116
hn_decay wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps this is an unfair caricature, but it has been my observation that the vast majority of "pro-software patent" supporters are misguided fans of either Microsoft or Apple. They seldom have anything to do with software development, and their perspective is seldom enlightened or nuanced. Strawman, unfair, bigotry, whatever -- I would love to be proven wrong. I have yet to hear a pro-software patent argument that i…

I have yet to hear an anti-patent argument that wasn't just repetition of the "patents are wrong" ideology. I'm actually neutral on patents in the sense of "what would be best in an ideal world". But the bottom line is this- my work is not free unless I choose to donate it. Thus in exchange for giving you my work, I'm going to require a license. If you steal it, you've stolen it, just as if you stole a car. But wait-…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN