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Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

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Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#241

Post by mmiliauskas »

aidenn0 wrote: post #156
retrac wrote: post #16

There was something very off before the pandemic. Girls were already diverging sharply from the historical norm and from boys over the last few years: https://els-jbs-prod-cdn.jbs.elsevierhealth.com/cms/attachme... "Sex- and Age-specific Increases in Suicide Attempts by Self-Poisoning in the United States among Youth and Young Adults from 2000 to 2018". It's disproportionately a specific method (poisoning) and it is…

In my abnormal psychology class, we learned that men had a much higher success rate in suicide, except in places where women had ready access to highly lethal poison.

Of course we do, our toxic masculinity demands us to excel at everything...

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#242

Post by atoav »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #196
retrac wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I remember growing up and the boogeyman was sexualized videos on MTV and violent video games Ironically, I think that generation may have been more or less right about the imagery being a negative, but wrong about the mechanism by which it works on us negatively. Sexualized imagery does not turn boys into rapists. But it does seem to promote body image insecurity, social status worries, and general anxiety, in thos…

You don't need old school MTV to find this. Just go to a grocery store and see all the women's magazines that promote insecurities. It's an entire business model. Female editors are presumably highly represented at these magazines and they don't seem to have a problem with the destruction they wreak.

Yes, but these magazines are something you have to actively buy and read. As the uncle of three girls I'd say what has more impact is peer pressure in social media. Girls from your class/school displaying images of themselves fulfilling certain body stereotypes. Seeing the same images in advertisements makes things only worse.

Putting female people into certain position doesn't turn them automatically into liberal challengers of the status quo, who rationally question the things they learned their whole life, certain kinds of pressure comes in the worst forms from other women (mother, grandmother, aunts, colleagues, etc).

E.g. if you are a girl in a typical family in Italy cutting your hair short, getting a tattoo, or not wearing a bra is something your relatives definitly will mention negatively to you. The only reason being that they have an idealized image of what a woman must look like to be a "propper woman". If you don't look like that they might think you are a lesbian, have psychological problems or similar silly causal connections.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#243

Post by Macha »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #182
retrac wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.amazon.ca/ZTE-Z557-8GB-Android-Smartphone/dp/B08... That's about 50 USD. Same day delivery, too! Devices can be found even a bit cheaper sometimes, as little as 35 USD. I see such devices in corner stores, grocery and drug stores. It's a bit of a clunker sure. But it'll stream porn or display Instagram just fine. (That device actually has a faster CPU, though less RAM, than my present smartphone, from 201…

> It's just a phone. Every kid has a phone, right? It's the plan I was thinking the store wouldn't sell, don't those have to be in someone's name? (But I might be wrong, I've never used a prepaid SIM.) > I know people in the EU who pay about $10 a month for unlimited mobile data. Perhaps, but not on a prepaid plan. I'm sure you can't buy a post-paid plan as a minor, that wouldn't make any sense!

The going rate on prepaid in my country these days is €20 for unlimited data[1][2], which, while not $10, is totally in kid lunch money range.

Prepaid tends to be cheaper in Ireland. Because postpaid is theoretically subsidising your phone and even sim only plans tend to get price shopped around against phone included plans. The cheapest postpaid plan with unlimited data is €30/month without a phone or €55/month with a phone [3][4]

1: https://www.three.ie/buy/prepay.html#prepay-phone-plans

2: https://www.eir.ie/mobile/prepay/

3: https://www.eir.ie/mobile/simonly/

4: https://www.three.ie/buy/bill-pay.html#sim-only

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#244

Post by kortilla »

imhoguy wrote: post #192
mixmastamyk wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of folks addicted to social media think it's important that kids get addicted too, like smoking in the old days. Truth is they'd be better off without it, for as long as possible. Focusing on media instead of school is a great way to end up working at a gas station later in life.

What is wrong with working at gas station? Here at my times kids were told they would be shoveling dirt if they had neglected school. It may be anegdotal but I know many of such school low performers who today own excavators, dumper trucks fleet, construction businesses. The point is they do much better than some of their now blue collar school peers burned out after years of studying and "career" often pushed to imp…

> What is wrong with working at gas station?

It’s a dead-end job with no fulfillment, low pay, low flexibility, and not much free time for intellectual growth.

> who today own excavators, dumper trucks fleet, construction businesses

Cool, those are great things that are explicitly not “working at a gas station”.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#245

Post by phist_mcgee »

mmiliauskas wrote: post #241
aidenn0 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my abnormal psychology class, we learned that men had a much higher success rate in suicide, except in places where women had ready access to highly lethal poison.

Of course we do, our toxic masculinity demands us to excel at everything...

I understand that your comment is facetious, but I think there may be something to this line of thinking. Men are more likely to follow through with their actions, due to immense social pressure for success. Even if that success is killing yourself, I think a lot of men would rather a successful attempt than an unsuccessful, just to avoid the shame of failing at something so serious.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#246

Post by fxtentacle »

atoav wrote: post #242
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need old school MTV to find this. Just go to a grocery store and see all the women's magazines that promote insecurities. It's an entire business model. Female editors are presumably highly represented at these magazines and they don't seem to have a problem with the destruction they wreak.

Yes, but these magazines are something you have to actively buy and read. As the uncle of three girls I'd say what has more impact is peer pressure in social media. Girls from your class/school displaying images of themselves fulfilling certain body stereotypes. Seeing the same images in advertisements makes things only worse. Putting female people into certain position doesn't turn them automatically into liberal ch…

The thorny issue is that your 3 examples might reduce that girl's chances on the dating market, so it might even be reasonable for her relatives to attempt to support her in obtaining a high quality partner.

I'd say the critical part wrt suicides is not that people are competing for attention from the opposite sex, because that has been around for a million years. The critical new aspect is that people are now grossly underestimating their relative standing. And that's because social media makes the one pretty outlier actress from the other side of the globe feel personal and acessible, which tricks us into treating them like a valid comparison point even though most high school girls will never need to compete against a Hollywood actress on looks, because the latter one is unavailable to all of her male classmates anyway.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#247

Post by twirlock »

joezydeco wrote: post #29

I witnessed this first hand. My daughter is in this age bracket and our school was 100% remote up until the spring of 2021. The return to school was hybrid, two days a week, and divided 50/50 by alphabet. Her anxiety levels went through the roof. Thankfully we didn't get to an extreme case of suicidal ideation but things were pretty bad for a while. Medication has helped, but getting a therapist appointment is nearly…

>I interpret reality as though it's a low budget teen movie

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#248

Post by satellite2 »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #158
retrac wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Our collective age is showing, perhaps. One can buy a new phone or tablet, with a month's data plan, with a few days' lunch money now, in some places. This translates into there being no practical way to keep a dedicated teenager off the Internet, unless they're literally never allowed out of the house and monitored 24/7. (And that might well be child abuse without very good cause! And you've probably already lo…

Where can you buy a phone/tablet that’s capable of browsing the internet, and a data plan with enough data to be worthwhile, for a few days of lunch money? Actually, would retail stores even sell a data plan to an unaccompanied minor? You could buy a SIM online I suppose, possibly via a gift card, and watch the mail carefully to ensure the package isn't seen, but it all seems like a lot of work for a small amount of…

It depends where you are. In most countries there are KYCs to buy a sim card (post 9/11 regulation). So if you don't buy it physically you'll have to do the process online.

> the whole thing wasn't really worth it

I have the impression that they would be trilled, and develop cravings for those data packet escapes. And the cravings would be much worse because of the artificial scarcity

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#249

Post by lugged »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #231
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need old school MTV to find this. Just go to a grocery store and see all the women's magazines that promote insecurities. It's an entire business model. Female editors are presumably highly represented at these magazines and they don't seem to have a problem with the destruction they wreak.

> Female editors are presumably highly represented at these magazines and they don't seem to have a problem with the destruction they wreak. Regardless of gender, the people that rise to the top tend to be sociopathic…

All 1-4% of them...

The insinuation that anyone who rises to the top of an organisation must be sociopathic is dillusional.

Yes, there is a higher incidence at the CEO level, traits that help you in a role also help you get there, go figure, but the idea all leaders are sociopaths is a huge stretch based off nothing but your own bias and distain for anyone high up in a power structure, that seems to be going around right now.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#250

Post by emteycz »

starkd wrote: post #213
musingsole wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but the desired effect (reduced suicides) was clearly visible during the lockdown. SOMETHING(S) changed that helped more of our children stick around for at least a little bit longer. So what? Whatever the cause, I'm willing to forgo scientific correctness to say what was obvious before the pandemic: OUR SCHOOL SYSTEMS ARE TERRIBLE FOR YOUR HEALTH

They are a bit like modern day prisons, are they not? Expensive modern day prisons.

A bit? Most schools look like and feel almost exactly like prisons. Only the most rich private schools look different.
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