Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant • Hacker News Board

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#241

Post by pumpkinandspice » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 2:33 AM UTC

ho_schi wrote: post #161

bamboozled wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What will bring is into trouble are non vaccinated people which build a big resource pool for Covid-19 to become more aggressive. I've heard a different story from an interview with Robert Malone, the creator of mRNA vaccines [1] [1] https://www.bitchute.com/video/ukx8L3lh5CA7/

The fact that the "Creator of mRNA" got a own Wikipedia page only two weeks ago makes me suspicious. And that his name is only listed on questionable websites. And I've learned that big things are usually not created by one person. The developments around mRNA are mostly attributed to Katalin Karikó, Ingmar Hoerr and Robert Langer - over a long time period.

Before Robert Malone gained media attention, I actually read about him in Wikipedia cited as such. I should have taken a screenshot and there probably are archives but over the next couple days when his name became bigger, I re-read Wikipedia and it was removed. So I went and read his earlier papers in the 8/90s about it

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#242

Post by bamboozled » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 8:41 AM UTC

pumpkinandspice wrote: post #241

ho_schi wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that the "Creator of mRNA" got a own Wikipedia page only two weeks ago makes me suspicious. And that his name is only listed on questionable websites. And I've learned that big things are usually not created by one person. The developments around mRNA are mostly attributed to Katalin Karikó, Ingmar Hoerr and Robert Langer - over a long time period.

Before Robert Malone gained media attention, I actually read about him in Wikipedia cited as such. I should have taken a screenshot and there probably are archives but over the next couple days when his name became bigger, I re-read Wikipedia and it was removed. So I went and read his earlier papers in the 8/90s about it

He actually talks about his removal from Wikipedia in the interview I quoted (I'm pretty sure).

I definitely saw him talk about it recently on one of the podcasts he has been on.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#243

Post by penteract » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 9:05 AM UTC

Woberto wrote: post #234

penteract wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the original commenter, but it seems clear that they had symptoms of long covid for >1 year after first catching covid, and those symptoms stopped <9 weeks after getting the first dose of the vaccine.

I don't think it's clear at all, OP made a distinction between some symptoms lasting up to 9 weeks (presumably after covid) vs symptoms from the vaccine lasting 6 weeks

The second comment says

>Then I had a year+ of long covid symptoms.

With that context, I read the first comment as

> In my case, remaining symptoms[of long covid] started disappearing after 2 weeks[after the vaccine]. By week 9[after the vaccine] I could no longer identify a single symptom[of long covid].

> However the vaccine itself had weird and strong side effects on me for a month and a half[= 6 weeks][after the vaccine].

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#244

Post by native_samples » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 9:37 AM UTC

throw0101a wrote: post #113

School-Cotton wrote: post #3

Buried the lede: > At the same time, protection against hospitalization and serious illness remained strong. I.e., Delta is more likely to get you sick, but you’ll still turn out fine.

> I.e., Delta is more likely to get you sick, but you’ll still turn out fine. Except for possible brain damage: > In a June paper[5], he and his team analysed clinical details for 125 people in the United Kingdom with COVID-19 who had neurological or psychiatric effects. Of these, 62% had experienced damage to the brain’s blood supply, such as strokes and haemorrhages, and 31% had altered mental states, such as confu…

Note that the vaccines can also cause strokes via blood clotting, disability and death. It is not a huge surprise because the mechanism of action for the mRNA vaccines is quite similar to that of the virus itself. The primary difference is in the controlled dosage, as the mRNA does not self-replicate (at least not yet - some researchers are working on "self amplifying mRNA vaccines").

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#245

Post by oldgradstudent » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 11:37 AM UTC

chopin wrote: post #118

oldgradstudent wrote: post #53

This has nothing to do with the variants. They've changed the testing policy for the vaccinated, so more of the vaccinated are getting tested. The efficacy was artificially high before because the vaccinated were rarely tested and therefore rarely reported as infected.

Do you have sources for this?

A more official source from the Israeli ministry of health:

> Notably, Israel’s SARS-CoV-2 testing policy was different for unvaccinated and vaccinated individuals during the study period. At 7 days after the second dose, vaccinated individuals were exempt from the SARS-CoV-2 testing required of individuals who either had contact with a laboratory-confirmed case or returned from travel abroad. This testing policy might have resulted in a differential bias that would cause over- estimation of vaccine effectiveness against asymp- tomatic infection (ie, asymptomatic people who received two doses were less likely to be tested than unvaccinated asymptomatic people).

https://doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(21)00947-8

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#246

Post by cfontes » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 12:01 PM UTC

ludocode wrote: post #209

cfontes wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider the big picture. Life is suffering with sparse sprinkles of happiness here and there. If you feel bad take a page from Budism, it's the best religion for your mind, and I am an avid agnostic. It's the "No bullshit" religion, basically it's your problem, fix it or learn to live with it. It teaches you to embrace suffering as part of living, everything is for you to endure, consider how to solve (or not) and g…

To play devil's advocate here: things are of course better today than they have been for most of human history. But for those of us in prosperous Western countries, they aren't necessarily better than they were, say, 50 years ago. In fact I would argue that we're in much worse shape. Part of the problem is that things have gotten worse on a rather short timescale. Millenials know very well the feeling of being judged…

I would say your view is very much biased towards your own country. I not showboating or anything but have lived in 4 countries and travelled to 30 or more most during the 90’s and more recently, the change is palpable.

I also live in a 3rd world country and it’s a sharp upwards change on the last 50 years.

Population has increased 5x but there is less people starving to death, getting killed by curable diseases and so on.

The only thing that has increased is crime because of drug gangs related issues here.

Most, middle eastern, eastern European, Asian, Central and South american countries enjoy a far more democratic governments than 50 years ago. Number of crazy dictators has decreased greatly in those 50 years.

Maybe the american situation is getting worst but I would argue that the vast majority of the planet is now being able to enjoy a bit of that “american life” that was only the privilege of a few.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#247

Post by cfontes » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 12:06 PM UTC

minikites wrote: post #50

cfontes wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider the big picture. Life is suffering with sparse sprinkles of happiness here and there. If you feel bad take a page from Budism, it's the best religion for your mind, and I am an avid agnostic. It's the "No bullshit" religion, basically it's your problem, fix it or learn to live with it. It teaches you to embrace suffering as part of living, everything is for you to endure, consider how to solve (or not) and g…

>Democracy is booming It absolutely is not, there are many threats to democracy right here in the USA. Many Republican states are passing massive voter suppression bills.

I am not an american.

I mean in the world, yours might be worst but check the other countries, in the last 50 years a lot of military governments and dictatorships ended.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#248

Post by taxicabjesus » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 3:25 PM UTC

pumpkinandspice wrote: post #239

smnrchrds wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hard time taking things like this seriously: https://twitter.com/PierreKory/status/1411158326726082565 Are all your links like this? Denying what we clearly can see (that vaccines work) to promote what they think will work (ivermectin)? EDIT: It gets worse the lower you scroll. In addition to dismissing vaccines and promoting ivermectin, he signal boosts "natural medicine" too. https://twitter.com/PierreKory…

I don’t think they’re denying that vaccines do not work at all. Have you watched their interviews or listen to their podcasts? They’re quite long but they are challenging the fact that vaccines aren’t the only way out and we need to consider alternatives and one of that alternatives is ivermectin. If you want to reach herd immunity, you want people to get immunity through different means (like getting vaccines and ge…

> one of that alternatives is ivermectin.

The old, safe antihistamine/anti-serotonin drug Cyproheptadine is promoted by a few lucid doctors as basically an antidote for the serotonin storm that underlies severe cases of COVID-19. @farid__jalali (tweets are now private, maybe he got tired of harassment?) is one of the major advocates for this treatment strategy. He liked my recent comment about "missing the forest for the trees" [0].

> Im not saying go out and get covid but people are already getting covid

A lot of people have already had a case of SARS-CoV-2 (and are therefore already immune), as it was spreading like wildfire well before the tests became available in March 2020 [1]. I had an odd headache in the December 2019/January 2020 period; in June 2020 I met a woman who claimed the symptoms of her eventually-diagnosed COVID-19 started December 7, 2019, "soon after [her] friends came back from their trip to China."

I had a blood draw for the T-Detect test last week. This will determines if my T-Cells recognize SARS-CoV-2. T-cells are a more long-lasting indicator of immunity than antibodies.

> and we need to lower their chance of hospitalization

The problem with hospitalization is that doctors have forgotten that pure oxygen is toxic and causes a cascade of harm to the whole body. I've put some effort into exposing the routine use of oxygen by our medical system as #MedicalHyperventilation [2]. The tragedy of routine hyperventilation is that the antidote is simple, effective, and profoundly therapeutic. While most doctors are aware of #OxygenToxicity, they are not aware of the antidote. :(.

p.s. Welcome to Hacker News, I noticed that your first comment was ~5 days ago. Here's some upvotes. :)

[0] https://twitter.com/TaxiCabJesus/status/1412654755415879690

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27750472

[2] https://www.taxiwars.org/2021/06/folly-medical-hyperventilat...

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#249

Post by 0-_-0 » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 3:47 PM UTC

lornemalvo wrote: post #199

loceng wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not including that people who are vaccinated's guard is down more, will likely be gathering more with wider social networks, etc; what are the chances an escape mutant variant occurs that spreads wide, has long delay before causing deadly effects, etc? And when does Ivermectin come into mainstream and every COVID discussion? Based on the evidence it looks like used as a preventative, give it to literally everyone for…

It does not look like Ivermectin would provide a substantial benefit: https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s128...

From 61 studies on Ivermectin you cherrypicked one of the 5 with a negative effect:

https://ivmmeta.com/#fig_fpall

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#250

Post by airhead969 » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 4:21 PM UTC

AJ007 wrote: post #159

airhead969 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're either a bloody liar, delusional, naïve, or don't have functioning eyes. - Famine in Yemen. Ongoing. - Famine in South Sudan. Ongoing. - Two years of drought in certain countries would push the world into global famine. Climate change weather patterns like Oregon/Canada and the ongoing mega drought in the US west and SW are just previews. - Millions and millions of homeless in America. I can see the camps and…

You should read more history books. We could also resolve every problem you listed and then get nailed by a meteor and have a total extinction of all life of earth. 100% possible.

False equivalency. You should read more books.