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Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

nature.com

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Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#241

Post by sjwalter »

lame-robot-hoax wrote: post #217
sjwalter wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, not very sure at all. However, I may have already have it, so that cat's out of the bag (and invalidates any reason to get the vaccine anyways). Or I may never get it. Taking the vaccine, which includes three brand new medical technologies and has not completed phase3 trial, guarantees me taking that risk. I am extremely healthy, have a great diet, and as a farmer, I get plenty of time soaking up vitamin D, a pot…

You have no clue what you are talking about and have spouted multiple falsehoods in your comment, especially in regards to phase 3 trials not being completed (they are) and that they are not conducting follow ups for an extended period of time (again, they are). https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-vaccines-idU... They have filed for full authorization for a reason. These vaccines have enough data backing…

I don't know where you're getting your information from, but what I stated is very easy to validate and I'm completely correct. Here are the links to the actual FDA trials for the different major co vid vaccines on clinicaltrials.gov as well as their associated estimated completion dates. All are currently in Phase 3 trials. (Aside, it's not clear how they will complete reporting for these trials as the companies blew up the placebo arms of the study. I guess that's another role I can play in this pandemic, being the control arm of the experimental trials currently underway.)

Please do not spread misinformation, especially misinformation about healthcare during a deadly and dangerous pandemic. Lives are at stake.

Moderna's FDA trial: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04470427 Estimated Study Completion Date: October 27, 2022

Pfizer's FDA trial: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728 Estimated Study Completion Date: May 2, 2023

JnJ's FDA trial: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04505722 Estimated Study Completion Date: January 2, 2023

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#242

Post by theknocker »

Oh that's weird that antibodies exist and that viruses are based on antibodies after all. That must be quite the discovery for the public health experts who spent the past 15 months telling everyone they're pseudo-intellectuals for thinking antibodies might have something to do with virus immunity and that getting a virus might help you be immune to it.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#243

Post by incrudible »

mrj wrote: post #225
incrudible wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vaccines are safe. This is true by medicinal standards, but it's also a sleight-of-hand. The AstraZeneca vaccine had a rare side-effect that was right on track to kill more young women in Europe than the virus itself. That's why it was banned. By that standard, I could argue the viral infection is also safe - for young women at least.

That was caught and the shots stopped. Millions of people have had the other vaccines with no similar bad news. If there was any kind of wide-spread problem, it would have been loudly seen by now and those vaccines would have also been pulled. There has not been. The vaccines (being administered now) are safe.

> If there was any kind of wide-spread problem, it would have been loudly seen by now and those vaccines would have also been pulled. There has not been.

Yes, if it was a wide-spread problem. The side-effect that killed AstraZeneca wasn't widespread, it was extremely rare, and it was caught because it was such an unlikely combination of symptoms. Yet, this extremely rare side-effect was enough to make the vaccine more dangerous than the virus - to young women at least.

In a year, when all the facts are collected and processed, we'll see how much trouble the Pfizer vaccine really caused in terms of Myocarditis. Then we'll scramble to make up numbers on how many infections must've been prevented by the vaccine to make it all worthwhile.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#244

Post by travoc »

ceejayoz wrote: post #146
braincat31415 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is the thing (and that's something that people with kids might relate to) -- we already know that covid is not a danger to kids, and that there are potential side effects involved when vaccinating kids. There is no way in hell I would vaccinate my child because "it is good for the society as a whole".

> we already know that covid is not a danger to kids We don't actually know this. We know it's less dangerous to them thus far . https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-56696907 https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/202...

"Thus far" is implied. We only ever know what we know thus far and we could always learn something new.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#245

Post by lame-robot-hoax »

sjwalter wrote: post #241
lame-robot-hoax wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have no clue what you are talking about and have spouted multiple falsehoods in your comment, especially in regards to phase 3 trials not being completed (they are) and that they are not conducting follow ups for an extended period of time (again, they are). https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-vaccines-idU... They have filed for full authorization for a reason. These vaccines have enough data backing…

I don't know where you're getting your information from, but what I stated is very easy to validate and I'm completely correct. Here are the links to the actual FDA trials for the different major co vid vaccines on clinicaltrials.gov as well as their associated estimated completion dates. All are currently in Phase 3 trials. (Aside, it's not clear how they will complete reporting for these trials as the companies ble…

You obviously didn’t read my link as it addresses exactly what you’re saying in your comment.

Study completion date does not mean phase 3 trial completion date.

“ However, these dates do not mean clinical trials will continue for this long, and instead reference continued safety monitoring after the vaccine has been approved and rolled out, which is standard practice within the industry”

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta...

Get a clue. Lives are at stake. Vaccination will save them. The majority of people dying now are dying because they made the choice not to get vaccinated.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#246

Post by sjwalter »

mrj wrote: post #218
sjwalter wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is incredibly misleading. I used to be a close follower of the pharma industry, and you're making it seem like FDA trials happen on molecules and formulations somewhat related to the proposed formulation and then are, like, transitively approved on that hand-wavey basis. This is totally wrong. For reasons that should be obvious to any engineer that's worked on any kind of even moderately complex system, the mole…

Even if true, this novel molecule is not floating around in a body for an entire year waiting to have some side effect. They've been shooting it into people for a year and a half now. If there was something to worry about, it would have been seen. But there are many parts of this vaccine that is shared with previous ones and the mechanics have been tested thoroughly. The science is the same. There's just no credible…

Not sure why everyone keeps saying the trials completed, or which link you mean, because we can go right to the primary source (clinicaltrials.gov) and see that all the vaccines are still in Phase 3 of FDA trials. Here are the links.

Please stop spreading misinformation during a deadly pandemic.

Moderna's FDA trial: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04470427 Estimated Study Completion Date: October 27, 2022

Pfizer's FDA trial: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728 Estimated Study Completion Date: May 2, 2023

JnJ's FDA trial: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04505722 Estimated Study Completion Date: January 2, 2023

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#247

Post by mrj »

timr wrote: post #232
mrj wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not novel, this technology has been trialed and used for a decade, 3 years in vaccines. We do already have long-term data. You would see side effects for a vaccine within six months, and we have been administering it for much longer than that. The vaccines are safe. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7956899/

> You would see side effects for a vaccine within six months, and we have been administering it for much longer than that. We have now had two separate rare-but-serious side effects of different Covid vaccines: the CVT issue with J&J, and the myocarditis issue with the mRNA vaccines in children. It's disingenuous to suggest that the vaccines are "safe" merely because they've been widely administered; even the questio…

Not ignoring but these are very rare side effects. It's something for doctors to know about in order to help treat the unlucky. But I think we have different meanings of the word safe.

These vaccines are very, very unlikely to give anyone a hard time. Nothing's without risk, but even for the unlucky that doesn't even sound that bad.

As soon as my son is eligible, he's getting it, too.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#248

Post by timr »

mrj wrote: post #247
timr wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You would see side effects for a vaccine within six months, and we have been administering it for much longer than that. We have now had two separate rare-but-serious side effects of different Covid vaccines: the CVT issue with J&J, and the myocarditis issue with the mRNA vaccines in children. It's disingenuous to suggest that the vaccines are "safe" merely because they've been widely administered; even the questio…

Not ignoring but these are very rare side effects. It's something for doctors to know about in order to help treat the unlucky. But I think we have different meanings of the word safe. These vaccines are very, very unlikely to give anyone a hard time. Nothing's without risk, but even for the unlucky that doesn't even sound that bad. As soon as my son is eligible, he's getting it, too.

> Not ignoring but these are very rare side effects. It's something for doctors to know about in order to help treat the unlucky. But I think we have different meanings of the word safe.

The chances that a child will experience anything other than extremely minor illness from Covid is also very rare. The current numbers are teetering on the edge of implying that children are at more risk from the vaccine than from the virus.

My definition of the word "safe" includes the rational weighing of risks vs. benefit for a target population. Is it worth it to put kids at risk from myocarditis that exceeds their risk from Covid, just to reduce population-level Covid stats and reduce the marginal risk to the elderly? I don't know, but it's not a question to simply ignore.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#249

Post by mrj »

incrudible wrote: post #243
mrj wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was caught and the shots stopped. Millions of people have had the other vaccines with no similar bad news. If there was any kind of wide-spread problem, it would have been loudly seen by now and those vaccines would have also been pulled. There has not been. The vaccines (being administered now) are safe.

> If there was any kind of wide-spread problem, it would have been loudly seen by now and those vaccines would have also been pulled. There has not been. Yes, if it was a wide-spread problem. The side-effect that killed AstraZeneca wasn't widespread, it was extremely rare, and it was caught because it was such an unlikely combination of symptoms. Yet, this extremely rare side-effect was enough to make the vaccine mor…

In most cases it goes away on it's own or people don't even know they got it.. That doesn't seem all that scary.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#250

Post by maxerickson »

jaywalk wrote: post #8
hammock wrote: post #4

This is great news, adding to a report in Nature that the natural immunity produced in people who have already had covid may last a lifetime.[1] In case you hadn't heard, the Cleveland Clinic--consistently regarded as one of the top hospital systems in the United States and in the world--recently shared a study of 52,238 patients showing zero incremental benefit from the jab to the previously infected, recommending t…

It's time for the naturally immune to be treated the same as those who've been vaccinated. There is absolutely zero scientific evidence to the contrary, and plenty of evidence to support it.

Vaccine induced immunity is natural too, it's the same mechanism, exposure to an antigen triggers a response in the body.

Really, "naturally immune" would imply a pre-existing immunity to the infection.

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