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Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

economist.com

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Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#241

Post by yoz-y »

onion2k wrote: post #226
apatters wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if you don't you'll end up with fewer businesses, which will concentrate wealth, which has documented negative effects on society.

You'll end up with fewer businesses, but the ones that won't get started are the ones people aren't really willing to put effort in to starting. You'll only really lose the easy "fill in a form and off you go" businesses. I don't imagine that's much of a loss. If someone has an idea, and a real drive to start, then they can start pretty much anywhere, even if it isn't super simple to register a company. So, really, m…

The major problem in EU is not really starting the companies. Most countries have ways to incorporate by filing a form and sending an email or two.

The problem though is financing, French investors for example are really stingy and you won’t get somebody to just throw a few millions at you to see if you succeed.

France has decided to build the “French Silicon Valley” multiple times by grouping schools and companies together, providing facilities and so on. But it always fails because there is no VC money pool.

If you start a company here, better think about profitability from the get go.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#242

Post by rsj_hn »

onion2k wrote: post #163
SOMA_BOFH wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

have you tried to start a company there?

Why should society optimize for how easy it is to start a business?

Because societies that promote innovation have higher quality of life and bless the entire world with technological advancement, while their own population benefits from lower prices, more goods, productivity growth, more jobs, more opportunity, and more fairness.

It's strange how quick people are to condemn monopolies and yet in the same breath insist that starting businesses is not a social good. Of course it's a social good, how do you think competition happens other than by starting businesses?

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#243

Post by [deleted] »

238475235243 wrote: post #43

I've lived in a few different parts of the EU, and couldn't imagine a worse idea than starting a company there (which I did, once). Starting is hard enough without the general negative attitudes, the government insanities, the insane taxes, the low work ethic, the 8 weeks of vacation every month (I exaggerate, slightly). And I was in one of the two best EU countries, God only knows how bad it is in Spain or Italy or…

[deleted]

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#244

Post by oytis »

profunctor wrote: post #4

Would have been nice if they had given a serious mention to some of the positives. Sure, Europe ahs hundreds of mobile operators but we also have cheaper plans than any I could find in America. We also have serious competition with our internet providers so I can actually switch to a better service. Anyway it is sad that we can't seem to grow as many new large companies. Hopefully we can improve at that while keeping…

> We also have serious competition with our internet providers so I can actually switch to a better service.

You're not in Germany, right?

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#245

Post by kortilla »

coldtea wrote: post #223
SOMA_BOFH wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and as a result of this, you're more innovative how...?

In that we have better internet for cheaper prices than the US, for example. Between national and state debts, Trump and the Dems electing a zombie, rampant crime, police brutality 10x that of the EU, no work-life balance, average citizens that are the laughing stock of the West education wise, huge inequality, depression and the opioeid epidemic, crumbling infrastructure, the largest incarceration rate per capita in…

> how does your innovation work for you?

Well it has produced the top tech companies and (most of the) top research universities in the world. So pretty well.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#246

Post by tcoff91 »

bennybob wrote: post #227
reader_mode wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a thriving tech scene in Europe and we do quite well! Is there really ? I see attempts at copying the US tech scene, but a lot of it seems structured to suck money out of government funds and programs. I see very little private investment. Just recently I talked to a local VC, in a casual chat about how they started their fund I found out they pulled money out of a EU fund, they had to put up like 25% of t…

Also wages in tech in the EU are laughably bad compared to USA. I'm in the UK, same problem. Yet everyone seems to think that a couple weeks more holiday makes up for it.

Isn’t university for your children free in Germany? That’s like a 100-200 thousand dollar savings if you have two kids you want to put through college vs the USA.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#247

Post by imiric »

apatters wrote: post #180
onion2k wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should society optimize for how easy it is to start a business?

Because if you don't you'll end up with fewer businesses, which will concentrate wealth, which has documented negative effects on society.

> concentrate wealth

Kind of like AT&T, Alphabet, Comcast and Disney?

Not to invoke whataboutism, but wealth concentration is as much of an issue in the US, if not more.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#248

Post by kpmah »

StreamBright wrote: post #212
reader_mode wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is no different with regards to movement. Just consider public health care in say Norway and in Bulgaria. Yeah it's financed indirectly by public funding but the quality can be terrible. In Croatia (where I'm from) you will regularly wait for 6+ months on life altering procedures and tests. And the public health system is in a constant crisis because of underfunding and overuse - just a few months ago drug sup…

For those who never experienced state run healthcare it sounds like an amazing idea. It is free! It is for all! Amazing. I usually ask my friends from the US how much do they like the service at DMV. Usually they hate it. So you want your healthcare to be run as DMV? Healthcare is great when you have a choice. The private healthcare industry is booming in Easter Europe now because there are people who can afford it.…

The NHS is one of the most efficient health systems in the world.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#249

Post by ddalex »

laurent92 wrote: post #165
ddalex wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand the people in EU are happier, have better social protection, better benefits, better health systems, better consumer protection, better application of rules and laws, they make for more productive employees. Do the shareholders get as rich as fast as in the hyperactive US economy? Not, but the society functions better. I very much prefer the EU.

In the end, one may talk about all the startups (when the BPI pumps billions into it, I sure hope there are some startups and medium companies), but EU has proven unable to build an Apple . It would be dismantled here, and CEO beaten up before reaching any interesting level. DailyMotion (French) was as big as Youtube. Many others like this. We always end up #2, and the Silicon Valley still decides what is ok to say o…

> EU has proven unable to build an Apple

and US has proven unable to build a Mercedes

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#250

Post by Haemm0r »

davidgatti wrote: post #166
reader_mode wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a thriving tech scene in Europe and we do quite well! Is there really ? I see attempts at copying the US tech scene, but a lot of it seems structured to suck money out of government funds and programs. I see very little private investment. Just recently I talked to a local VC, in a casual chat about how they started their fund I found out they pulled money out of a EU fund, they had to put up like 25% of t…

This description is UE startups in a nutshell :) Countries like Poland for example, get massive amount of money from the EU, and there are business that specialize only in getting grants for people, which then they use to make a "company" for a year or two, and when the money runs out they close it and reopen another one with the next grant. With no revenue stream idea what so ever. In this type of country's if you h…

I'd prefer Dolce Vita over 16h/day anytime! :-)
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