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Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

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Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#241

Post by myself248 »

drdeadringer wrote: post #221
cratermoon wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> propped up by debt Payday lenders make a killing on exploiting this.

I worked on a (US) Naval shipyard for a spell. The number of payday loan shops in the immediate surrounding area was astounding. I kept hearing word of "Don't Do Payday" financial help training for the Naval crew, who apparently were a prime target for the industry. Before working there, I had little idea such existed. Think "worse than 'cash your cheque here'" places. I don't know how many Naval folks I worked with…

Some years back, I was on a jobsite where radios were allowed, and we rotated through the crew, everyone playing deejay for a day, so everyone's taste got represented. Some guys would bring in a stack of CDs, some would just play the radio. It meant I listened to a few stations I don't normally listen to.

And the density of payday loan ads, on some stations but not others, blew my mind. I don't think I ever heard one on the classic-rock station (their stock in trade was testosterone ads, apparently), but they were at saturation density on the R&B station.

Payday loan places have always been scum, but that really opened my eyes to the deliberate exploitation aspect. This is targeted.

It's good to hear that there's financial training for the Navy. I wonder if there's anything similar out in civilian life that we could support?

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#242

Post by fshbbdssbbgdd »

jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

I think the effects of price stickiness (on goods and labor) aren’t being adequately considered in these discussions. Yes, these restaurants could raise their wages to compete with unemployment, and many have. They’ll also need to raise their prices, which they have leeway to do, because everyone is facing the same costs.

The problem occurs in a few months when the bonus unemployment runs out. Then there will be millions more people looking for work. At that point, expanding employers will be able to hire at lower wages again. They’ll also be able to offer goods at lower prices. Employers who stepped up to pay higher wages won’t be able to compete. They’ll need to cut prices and cut wages or lay people off. That will be painful, which makes holding out until wages lower more attractive.

Employers can get around this by offering signing bonuses instead of higher wages, but they need to be large to compete with unemployment checks, and it may not make sense to do that for a few months of work.

These conditions may present a unique opportunity for policymakers to increase employment by raising the minimum wage.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#243

Post by fma »

jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

Yep - which is the appeal Universal Basic Income as Andrew Yang proposes...automation is inevitable, have it work for the people rather than increasing profits.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#244

Post by TuringNYC »

mywittyname wrote: post #20

I've long felt that many jobs paid unsustainably low wages. There are a lot of jobs where your net pay is below zero, long term, when you factor in the external costs associated with working, such as needing transportation. These jobs have been propped up by debt. It looks like the pandemic has put and end to this. Transportation costs have skyrocketed to such a degree that it's basically impossible for a poor person…

Another thing: if the job pays just enough to disqualify you from state-run healthcare (medicaid, etc), but not enough to pay out-of-pocket for health insurance, the only logical step for many is to not work.

This is especially the case for part-time jobs which do not provide healthcare.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#245

Post by nitwit005 »

jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

> With such a small profit margin, arbitrarily raising everyone's wages is likely going to kill the business.

There have been past minimum wage hikes, and that's not what has happened. The costs get passed onto consumers.

Of course, there's presumably some hypothetical minimum wage that would be too high and destroy the industry, but the amounts being discussed in the US are below what other countries have already tried.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#246

Post by prepend »

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #189
unethical_ban wrote: post #21

Occasionally, Twitter provides some nice insights in digestible forms (of course, nuance gets stripped). I saw a post recently that said something like "We watch Star Trek and marvel at their post-scarcity world. We are living in a post-scarcity world now, but all the benefits are being funneled by wage slaves up to the 0.1%." Paraphrased. I was talking with a friend who mentioned that a local pizza place is offering…

To me, no education, no experience jobs are the norm. Does that restaurant pay incoming career food service staff a wage sufficient to raise a family on? A solid third of the households in the US take in under 50k/yr. More than half that are under 25k. I don't know about you, but 37k doesn't go far. Assuming 30% effective tax rate that's 2158/mo. 1 bed flat in my city $1400 Cell phone bill: $100 Home internet: $100 E…

These are just hypothetical numbers but I think the problem here is that people are resourceful and work to change or reduce these expenses. Everyone’s story varies, but it’s pretty common to address these with:

Rent- get a roommate or rent a room instead of a one bedroom flat. Rent is reduced from $1400.

Use a prepaid phone plan to reduce from $100.

Use a slower speed or share internet to reduce from $100.

Motorcycle or cheaper car to reduce from $530.

These aren’t impossible problems and are things that are really common to deal with. I worked with people in Manhattan who slept three to a bed. That obviously sucks but assuming that every single person should have a one bedroom flat with their own car and luxury internet and phone is not as good an assumption that people will adjust their spending.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#247

Post by [deleted] »

gruez wrote: post #113
mywittyname wrote: post #20

I've long felt that many jobs paid unsustainably low wages. There are a lot of jobs where your net pay is below zero, long term, when you factor in the external costs associated with working, such as needing transportation. These jobs have been propped up by debt. It looks like the pandemic has put and end to this. Transportation costs have skyrocketed to such a degree that it's basically impossible for a poor person…

>I've long felt that many jobs paid unsustainably low wages. Can you elaborate on this? $7.25 * 8 hours = $58. It's hard to imagine expenses adding up anywhere close to $58/day, especially if you factor in that in high cost of living areas the minimum wage is also higher than $7.25.

[deleted]

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#248

Post by EvilEy3 »

gonational wrote: post #22

Timeline of Stupidity A: "we should give everyone free money!" B: "no, that'll make everyone lazy..." A: "no, people will work on things they love instead!" [everyone gets free money] [nobody works, everyone plays video games all day] A: "see, this proves that everyone was being exploited!" B: [smh] Plato's Five Regimes. We're entering the fourth regime.

You missed the part where you lose "free" money when you start working, genius.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#249

Post by ryan93 »

seibelj wrote: post #142
leetcrew wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

okay, it's a good option if you want/need work and you're a highschooler. I guess we could debate whether it is a good thing for a highschooler to have a job in the first place. that's going to depend on the situation. if you're working tons of hours to support your family instead of keeping up in school, that's going to hurt your long-term prospects. if you're working a couple shifts a week so you don't have to ask…

Honestly - working crap retail and food service jobs during high school was as much (or more) valuable education than what I learned in school. Certainly motivated me in college to study and work hard. The value of working is not only in the money earned, and I will force my children to get part-time jobs during high school.

Why make your kids earn a profit for someone else? They should be learning and hanging with friends. You didnt learn more working fast food than in school. You hated it which motivated you. Not everyone needs to experience fast food to know its not a great career outcome.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#250

Post by loopercal »

inetknght wrote: post #176
paulpauper wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But inflaiton is very low. yeah, CPI excludes stuff, but we're a long way from the 70s and 80s.

> inflaiton is very low No it isn't. My rent is up 80% since two years ago. Food costs are up 40%. Healthcare is up 200%. Good news though: fuel costs are about the same!

>My rent is up 80% since two years ago.

There's no major* rental market in the US where this is the case.

* - There could be some oil boom in a 300 person town I don't know about I guess.

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