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“Buy and Hold” No More: The Resurgence of Active Trading

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Re: “Buy and Hold” No More: The Resurgence of Active Trading

#241
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ARKK is far from passive

Sure it is. The money you put into it is placed for you. That's passive. The fund itself may algorithmically place it in various things, but that's outside your control. Conversely, look at super undervalued companies like JKS and CSIQ. JKS is the largest and fastest growing solar company in the world BTW. Yet these companies sit mostly under foreign market ETFs which have never been very popular, and hence why they…

That's not the definition of passive investing, what you're talking about is the distinction between agency trading and proprietary trading.

ARKK are active investors because they're using discretion to pick specific investments.

They say so themselves: "ARKK is an actively managed ETF"

Re: “Buy and Hold” No More: The Resurgence of Active Trading

#242
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NNDM is heavily retail driven, it's been a fan favorite for a year. Their institutional ownership is only 10%[1]. It's similar to IBIO, NKLA, etc, where there's some attention from funds but retail hype on social media is driving it up. ARKK has been buying NNDM, yes, but: - they're not passive. they're active. - they only own 5% of the stock. almost any public stock will have at least 5% owned by some fund, so it's…

Institutional Ownership % doesn't mean squat as far as trading activity goes. You and I could trade 1 share back and forth a billion times a day, and it wouldn't have any impact on institutional ownership %. The vast majority of trade activity recently is from ARK. You can see this by looking at the link I showed and compare the strong correlation in rising stock prices and ARK buying. Alternatively any retail invest…

  > Institutional Ownership % doesn't mean squat as far as trading activity goes. You and I could trade 1 share back and forth a billion times, and it wouldn't have any impact on institutional ownership %.
We're talking about pricing/valuation, not trading volume.

Institutional ownership does convey relevant information in regards to valuation, because it tells you who bought and didn't later sell, and therefore who contributed net buy flow over the last year.

Trades that get closed (i.e., trades that contribute to volume but not ownership) don't have permanent price impact in expectation, and are therefore not useful for answering the question of "why is this stock so high for no good reason?".

  > The vast majority of trade activity recently is from ARK. You can see this by looking at the link I showed and compare how their "WEIGHT IN PROTFOLIO %' dropped despite their "SHARES HELD" has remained constant.
I don't get this logic.

If portfolio % drops but shares held remained constant, that means they largely stopped trading NNDM and increased the size of their other (non-NNDM) holdings.

Also, that link shows they traded only a few million in volume in March in NNDM, but total NNDM volume over that month was in the hundreds of millions. So they only traded 1-2% of total volume.

  > Dilution reduces Institutional Ownership %, as well as individuals ownership %
Why do you say this? If they do an at-the-market offerring and sell it on-market primarily to retail bids, the retail ownership % will increase proportionally.

Re: “Buy and Hold” No More: The Resurgence of Active Trading

#243

I kind of hate the idea of encouraging young people to pursue speculation instead of building. Post-IPO investing doesn't create a ton of value for society.

I disagree.

The pricing of post-IPO stocks is responsible for trillions of dollars of capital allocation, since the amount that public companies can raise is linearly proportional to the stock price.

It's not an unimportant problem to get right, unless you think it doesn't matter whether billions of dollars get allocated to GME versus MRNA.

A clown show where GME gets all the funding (due to its high stock price) and real companies don't is not going to lead to a productive and healthy economy.

Re: “Buy and Hold” No More: The Resurgence of Active Trading

#244

"A combination of illusory superiority bias—the belief that we are more financially savvy than we actually are—and a culture of financial optimism leads most retail traders to believe they have above-average trading ideas and strategies." Um, yes. Retail investors as a class lose money. Remember, you're betting against people for whom this is their day job, work in a business that drops the losers, and have far more…

[deleted]

Re: “Buy and Hold” No More: The Resurgence of Active Trading

#245
post #225
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average of the coin flip will be near 50% though. If you let a 1000 people give their opinion on if a stock is up or down in a month, you are likely to do better than random guessing (opinion is a weighted coin). For instance, taking the top 50 stock pickers from the finance section of newspapers will demonstrably lead to a decent, better than random guessing, portfolio. You are assuming that the stock market is…

>For instance, taking the top 50 stock pickers from the finance section of newspapers will demonstrably lead to a decent, better than random guessing, portfolio. Source? If by "random" you mean "randomly pick a company off the stock exchange using a uniform distribution and then buy/sell based on the result of a coin flip", you might be right. However, if your "random" means "randomly picking stocks on a market-cap w…

For instance the ISMIS 2017 Data Mining Competition: Trading Based on Recommendations https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-60438-1_...

And I think it is enough to claim that the average of the recommendations was better than any individual stock picker.

> The problem here is that all that information is public and the amount of alpha is scarce.

Not insurmountable, no? I feel these objections are often busied by finance professors, after a student rudely assumes they wouldn't be teaching if they knew how to make money.

RenTech was doing speech recognition on foreign TV broadcasts in the 90s. Can't you think of similar features you could whip up in a 100 lines of Python and the YouTube API? Some very profitable companies hire very smart PhDs to that for them. Could you bootstrap this? Work harder? Extend to some new hip platform a well-paid quant has never heard of?

> trying to get a piece of the action, diluting or even eliminating the benefit for everyone.

So join in. You are aware of the action. It's not like we are doing this for a bit of fun. The crowd wisdom is there, the hedge funds don't have a monopoly on polling it or analyzing it. Then redistribute the wealth for the benefit of everyone. Those very hard in on the action are not going to.

> but doesn't work if they're clueless and are all trying to buy into the same bubble.

Yes, this is correct, and a big problem in crowd analytics. Or at least, it has a big negative effect (you ideally want everyone to make decisions of their own accord, using their own information). But you can also again harnass this with counter trading strategies. Over the years, it has been fairly easy to call the top of a hype, and predict the obvious correction. So for instance, if the Teletubbies twitter is tweeting about Bitcoin, you know that maybe now is time to sell some Bitcoin, and rebuy back in 6 months when all newspapers are writing about how Bitcoin is a scam and a world-wide crypto ransom attack just occured.

The problem can be overcome in a couple of ways. An interesting one is: "skin-in-the-game". If your wrong hype predictions damages your reputation or causes money loss, you are more serious about it. Another is to ask: What percentage of other people do you think got this question wrong? People who answer Sydney as the capitol of Australia, think that few got it wrong. People who give the correct answer think that many will get it wrong.

> You do realize that the stock market is exactly that, right?

Partly yes. The difference with crowdsourcing is that you are building a model on top of the other participants. Many day traders with bots do not know that hedge funds have models more complex tracking what they are doing and going to do, than the bot is complex. But many day traders also underestimate how they'd stack up against an office of suits, if they worked together, and ramen-noodle hacked it.

Re: “Buy and Hold” No More: The Resurgence of Active Trading

#246

> Conventional wisdom holds that passive trading is the rational investing strategy. That isn't conventional wisdom. It's not someone's opinion. It's statistically proven reality. Whether you're an individual trader or a billionaire hedge fund manager, active strategies lose out to passive ones in the long run. > has catalyzed a lean-in mindset around investing, particularly among Gen Z. And it will burn them, just l…

  > active strategies lose out to passive ones in the long run.
This is only true in the average. Most people can't do it.

It's false if we're talking about specific strategies (e.g. Medallion Fund).

There are computerized short-term strategies that print money almost every single day, deployed in a few of the large firms.

Re: “Buy and Hold” No More: The Resurgence of Active Trading

#247
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Institutional Ownership % doesn't mean squat as far as trading activity goes. You and I could trade 1 share back and forth a billion times a day, and it wouldn't have any impact on institutional ownership %. The vast majority of trade activity recently is from ARK. You can see this by looking at the link I showed and compare the strong correlation in rising stock prices and ARK buying. Alternatively any retail invest…

> Institutional Ownership % doesn't mean squat as far as trading activity goes. You and I could trade 1 share back and forth a billion times, and it wouldn't have any impact on institutional ownership %. We're talking about pricing/valuation, not trading volume. Institutional ownership does convey relevant information in regards to valuation, because it tells you who bought and didn't later sell, and therefore who co…

>Institutional ownership does convey relevant information in regards to valuation, because it tells you who bought and didn't later sell, and therefore who contributed net buy flow over the last year.

Institutional ownership merely means (shares held by institutions)/(total shares available). It does not signify anything more, and valuation cannot be inferred from such information. Changes in institutional ownership may signify what you are arguing, but it's a slippery slope.

Anyhow pricing and valuation is all dictated by trading activity. And prices can change massively even with little to no institutional ownernship % or changes thereof.

>If portfolio % drops but shares held remained constant, that means they largely stopped trading NNDM and increased the size of their other (non-NNDM) holdings

You are correct, I mismatched and incorrectly worded what I meant.

>Also, that link shows they traded only a few million in volume in March in NNDM, but total NNDM volume over that month was in the hundreds of millions

What I meant to show here was this was the period of obvious dilution. Look at the months prior to march and see the strong correlation to ARK trading and price rise. There were also offerings being made when ARK was buying, but look at when ARK stopped buying and how the price fell when dilution continued.

>Why do you say this? If they do an at-the-market offerring and sell it on-market primarily to retail bids, the retail ownership % will increase proportionally.

Again poorly worded on my part. I meant can reduce Institutional Ownership %...

Recent activity as of March may be retail activity, but that's not what I meant by recent. Using your very argument, if recent institutional ownership has dropped in March, it wouldn't go against the argument that I'm making that NNDM's price rise (as in starting from last years price at ~$1.58 in September) till recently, was largely fueled by ARK activity.

Re: “Buy and Hold” No More: The Resurgence of Active Trading

#248
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Institutional Ownership % doesn't mean squat as far as trading activity goes. You and I could trade 1 share back and forth a billion times, and it wouldn't have any impact on institutional ownership %. We're talking about pricing/valuation, not trading volume. Institutional ownership does convey relevant information in regards to valuation, because it tells you who bought and didn't later sell, and therefore who co…

>Institutional ownership does convey relevant information in regards to valuation, because it tells you who bought and didn't later sell, and therefore who contributed net buy flow over the last year. Institutional ownership merely means (shares held by institutions)/(total shares available). It does not signify anything more, and valuation cannot be inferred from such information. Changes in institutional ownership…

  > Changes in institutional ownership may signify what you are arguing.
Agreed, but we don't have access to this, so we need to use what's available.

The level of institutional ownership (10%) is useful because it provides approximate/rough bounds on its changes over the last 12 months.

Take the limit to see why it's useful: If IO% is currently 0% (100%), we can conclude with some confidence that a protracted move from $0.5 to its current price of $7.5 is retail (institutional) driven.

An IO% of 10% doesn't conclusively show that a protracted move is retail driven (for a bunch of reasons, some of which you've highlighted), but it does suggest it (especially in this case where all traded volume is recent), absent better info.

  > look at when ARK stopped buying and how the price fell
I feel that this is a bit of curve fitting.

Retail in general has been selling since January. NNDM's January blow-off was largely GME-hype related, and since then all retail favourites have been weak.

Compare the NIO chart to the NNDM chart. They're completely unrelated but topped out at the identical dates and have sold off in the exact same way.

This strongly suggests correlation driven by retail flows. Why else would NNDM and NIO track each other so closely since January 2021?

  > dilution continued.
Was there recent dilution? They engaged with an underwriter at a very high offering price, but the 424B5 doesn't suggest an obligation to buy. Since the price tanked after the date of this engagement, I'd assume that no counterparties would've purchased any stock?

https://www.bamsec.com/filing/121390021009721?cik=1643303

  > Recent activity as of March may be retail activity, but that's not what I meant by recent.
I'm talking about the last 12 months. ARKK only held 5%, which leaves 95%.

Re: “Buy and Hold” No More: The Resurgence of Active Trading

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"real world skills" is a nebulous concept. What counts as a "real world skill" and what doesn't? Got a sprain? Call a doctor. Leaking pipe? Call a plumber. Doesn't seem nebulous at all. Conversely, speculation and greed ruining the world? Call on the populace to bail them out. Speculation doesn't build or fix physical stuff. >You mean some sort of planned economy? Those have not worked well historically. Because his…

Allocating capital towards the most useful projects is a valuable real world skill. Bankers are essential for an advanced economy, as is capital investment. Now, we can certainly argue the specifics of the best way to do that, and whether our current system is working as it should, but it isn’t as simple as to say everyone working in finance is useless.

>Allocating capital towards the most useful projects is a valuable real world skill

It would be if that's what speculation actually did, but it doesn't. Everything that predominantly boils down to making money with money needs to go.

>but it isn’t as simple as to say everyone working in finance is useless.

Agreed.

Re: “Buy and Hold” No More: The Resurgence of Active Trading

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roaring Kitty’s posts that kicked off the GME craze had some very thoughtful analysis. And recently I watched some videos about dividend investing on YouTube that I would consider reasonable investment advice. I agree that there is a lot of gambling and excessive risk taking going on. And I myself stick to a 3 ETF portfolio because I like the simplicity. But to call it almost entirely just gambling I think is missing…

Without being totally dismissive of every person who has contributed to the platforms you mention...99.99% of the stuff on YouTube is terrible, and most of the stuff written about GME was total nonsense. It is difficult to convey this because, in the end, you have no idea either so you don't know whether there is useful stuff on YouTube or if I am just talking nonsense too...but it is so bad, and it gives the mislead…

In a sense, you both are correct. The stuff on YouTube is terrible, but it is also used by many (some made a lot of money and so are very vocal about it). A 1000 YouTube videos promoting a terrible coin. The price is going up. Even the one who went to YouTube to consume the drivel and act on it made some money. 5 videos were top-notch production quality, measuring itself against the top paid analysis.

A crazy thing went on early with ETH bot trading. Of course, if you are going to download a bot from Github which works on a few trends and technical indicators, you should not expect to make a lot of money. But many did -- It is easy to predict whether a rocket is going up. The features the bot used are still indicative (at other timeframes), because so many were running them, influencing the price in future timeframes.

> misleading impression that picking stocks is very easy

At least picking a stock yourself is easier than predicting what stock someone else will pick.

> MBAs, and work in fund management every day for decades...and will never come close to being profitable

That seems like a cosy lifestyle not worth bragging about, good job security. Rooting for the night janitor at a small hotel though, who put a 1000$ on doge coin when first reading about the rememe potential.

But I agree with the gambling and financial terrorism for kicks. More as a warning against financial irresponsibility, less as in "stay of my turf!".

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