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Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

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Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#241

Post by gizmo385 »

chrisco255 wrote: post #7
ipsum2 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think so? Almost all TV shows are exclusive to their platforms, and they're doing fine. What makes audio different?

Existing podcast ecosystem is already entrenched. I'm in the process of disentangling myself from all tech monopolies and people are wiser to it now more than ever. TV shows began on network TV. The whole point of podcasting was anyone can start one. Unlike TV shows, it's quite easy from a technical perspective to host a podcast. Audio talk shows don't have to be high bitrate. Honestly I think stranglehold on video w…

> I'm in the process of disentangling myself from all tech monopolies and people are wiser to it now more than ever.

I don't think most people will go through the hassle of disentangling themselves from tech monopolies. What's the benefit? For most people, having everything managed by Google/Apple/Facebook is a benefit rather than a bad thing.

> The whole point of podcasting was anyone can start one.

Has this changed?

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#242

Post by dlp211 »

roenxi wrote: post #232
dlp211 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it tyranny? Under the most liberal definition tyranny is: "cruel, unreasonable, or arbitrary use of power or control." It certainly is not cruel for any definition of cruel I am familiar with. It certainly isn't arbitrary, Spotify is not doing this on a whim and it isn't taking down all the episodes, it clearly is being very deliberate, though you may disagree with their process. The only one could be unreason…

> It certainly isn't arbitrary... [a]gain, you may disagree with their reasoning, but it is not an unreasonable position. Those are slightly incorrect interpretations of the words 'arbitrary' and 'unreasonable'. Reasonable doesn't mean 'has reasons'. Every decisions has reasons. If a king decides to chop someone's head off he had reasons - he felt like it. Being reasonable/unreasonable is about whether an opinion can…

arbitrary: "based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system."

None of these are by personal whim, there is clearly a process/system in place to determine whether an episode should stay.

unreasonable: "not guided by or based on good sense" and "beyond the limits of acceptability or fairness." Sorry, I just don't see how these decisions could be considered unreasonable. You may disagree with the moral sense of why they are doing this, you may disagree that that is good sense, but that would be best, your opinion, not some empirically correct point of view.

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#243

Post by motohagiography »

klyrs wrote: post #147
motohagiography wrote: post #63

The tech platforms have a meekness problem. Rogan's payday secures his family's future for the next few generations because he did some funny fancy talking to some weirdos on the internet, so good for him. On the censorship issue, meh, there's nothing to add, it's not a discussion or rational discourse. We can only hope the alternative is entertaining.

What do you mean, "meekness"? They got flak for hosting rogan in the first place. Now they're getting flak for taking down a small fraction of his content. Outrage, engaged! Are they "meek" because they're doing something you disagree with, are they "meek" for doing something you agree with, or is choosing a middle path necessarily meekness?

To be precise, Spotify and other platforms have been cowed into dropping episodes and people because they are afraid of the anonymous histrionics from small mobs. The same goes for every other platform. They directly enable and reward the very people they seem to fear. Do the platforms think these mobs can be appeased, or that they will relent once you satisfy them? They've negotiated with terrorists and compromised everyone else in the process. This is their meekness problem.

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#244

Post by paxys »

Gravyness wrote: post #231
paxys wrote: post #187

Don't know why Joe Rogan is treated like some free-speech messiah and Spotify the villain. If he was really that adamant on getting his message out there he would have kept his podcast free. Instead he chose a $100M payday (and the associated censorship terms), and here we are.

If paper is so cheap, how come books be so expensive?

Books are free. Marketing is expensive.

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#245

Post by aleister_777 »

ljm wrote: post #169
bgorman wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not an absurd investment, Spotify is a commodity technology and taking away Joe Rogan podcast from their biggest competitor (Apple) provides much needed differentiation. Joe Rogan's podcast was the number one podcast on Apple Podcasts. Now it isn't available at all.

So you buy out Apple's number 1 podcast...and then Apple has another number 1 podcast. And you're sitting with a lame duck, as is evidenced by TFA. Is Spotify going to blow another 100 mil on that one and hope for the best? They messed up by betting large on a celebrity and ignoring the fact that Joe Rogan wasn't a cultural fit.

> They messed up by betting large on a celebrity and ignoring the fact that Joe Rogan wasn't a cultural fit.

He's a cultural fit for x hundreds of millions. You may not fall into that demographic, but there's no discounting that other cultures exist outside of your own.

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#246

Post by aleister_777 »

vladTheInhaler wrote: post #216
rorykoehler wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see how both can’t be problems at the same time?

If you look at the commenter's history, it becomes clear that they are much more concerned with one than the other.

Were you speaking about yourself?

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#247

Post by barbazoo »

kryogen1c wrote: post #197
Barrin92 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Society in the west seems to not know how to deal with this new variety of bullying Society in the West in contrast to... what exactly? Are you under the impression non-Western societies don't shape culture based on norms and expectations about what's proper or right? How is Spotify deleting episodes from their own platform tyranny? Jesus people have become so dramatic and whiny. Here's a crazy idea, if you don't wa…

> How is Spotify deleting episodes from their own platform tyranny? Jesus people have become so dramatic and whiny. to use the overlycommon parable of a frog slowly being boiled to death, you are the frog saying "jesus people, the water raised 0.5 degrees, no ones dying here" the problem is that youre focusing on one move that might be meaningless by itself, but is a part of a larger game of chess. the pieces are mov…

Regarding boiling frog metaphor:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2006/09/the-b...

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#248

Post by atat7024 »

AlexC04 wrote: post #238
hattmall wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Removing random episodes offering no reasoning is tyrannical. It being "their platform" is a non-statement as that's the only place they can be tyrants.

I'm not certain that tyrants pay their employees $100 million. He is being more than fairly compensated. They don't have to host his white nationalist content. They pay him handsomely for the privilege of removing the episodes where he uncritically nods along with the likes of Stephan Moleneaux and Alex Jones.

> he uncritically nods along

You'd have lynched every talk show host in the last 60 years that had on a guest they didn't crucify at every point, ruining their interviews?

Ridiculous.

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#249

Post by BryantD »

_qwfv wrote: post #202
skohan wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not that worried about Spotify and 40 odd episodes from the Joe Rogan catalog, but it does fit into a larger narrative. I am somewhat concerned that a hand-full of companies can effectively remove someone from the public discourse. Nobody was too upset when Alex Jones got deplatformed, but there is something a little unnerving about the fact that Twitter was allowed to basically kill certain news stories leading…

> hand-full of companies can effectively remove someone from the public discourse. How do you today compares to historical American freedom of discourse? For example, I look at things like the House Committee on Un-American Activities, where stating pro-socialist/pro-communist views might get someone fired or imprisoned in the 40s-50s. [1] Or the 'Comics Code' of the 60s-00s, where comics publishers agreed to self-ce…

This is a much better, less snarky version of my point elsewhere in the thread.

I do think that tech control of discourse is an important thing to watch. I don't yet believe that it's impossible for people with extreme views to find a host; I am right now looking at a Google Podcasts page hosting an unquestionably white supremacist, Holocaust-denying podcast. When I was younger, you had to go find yourself a dingy mimeographed snail mail catalog of books to get a copy of Ragnar Redbeard's book. It's way easier these days.

But yes. Even if you think that the danger of conspiracy theories is such that it warrants restraints on free speech, it is also true that you should be extremely concerned with how those restraints are determined and enforced.

That said, if you're not looking at trends over decades, you are likely to overreact to the short term.

Re: Spotify continues to remove Joe Rogan episodes

#250

Post by Manuel_D »

gizmo385 wrote: post #235
thekashifmalik wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or is it rather a few employees who, emboldened by cancel-culture, will toss their political agenda around the office while other employees, intimidated by cancel-culture, shy away from calling out the obvious BS? This is it. The intimidation is real; look at what happened to James Damore.

What is your interpretation of what happened to James Damore? I would guess you and I have different opinions on what exactly took place, but I'm not sure either of us can presume that our opinions on those situations reflect the ground truth of what actually happened.

My interpretation was that Damore said that forcing 50/50 outcomes is discrimination, and more broadly the claim that all gender disparities are entirely caused by bias is not correct. He laid out specific discriminatory policies (representation OKRs, coaching candidates for interviews but only if they belong to underrepresented demographics) and asked the company to stop.

The depiction of the memo in the media was that he said women weren't as intelligent as men. Even though he explicitly called out that this is not what he was saying, he referred only to innate factors influencing preferences not intelligence.

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