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High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

scientificamerican.com

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Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#241

Post by biolurker1 »

rory wrote: post #5

> It’s also possible that people who join Mensa differ from other people in ways other than just IQ. For example, people preoccupied with intellectual pursuits may spend less time than the average person on physical exercise and social interaction, both of which have been shown to have broad benefits for psychological and physical health. Is Mensa really an "intellectual pursuit"? I'm not sure exactly what Mensa does…

You can join to find your peers. Like when you watch a football match, you don't join the club cause you feel insecure of your athleticism.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#243

Post by wenc »

rory wrote: post #5

> It’s also possible that people who join Mensa differ from other people in ways other than just IQ. For example, people preoccupied with intellectual pursuits may spend less time than the average person on physical exercise and social interaction, both of which have been shown to have broad benefits for psychological and physical health. Is Mensa really an "intellectual pursuit"? I'm not sure exactly what Mensa does…

I joined Mensa at age 12 on a whim just to check out what it was all about. I had mostly positive experiences -- Mensa gave me a peer-group of grown-ups (mostly professionals) from whom I learned a lot. As a kid, my development was a little out of sync with that of my peers, so I really appreciated having a venue for conversations with adults who weren't my parents. I think I grew up faster that way because Mensa folks interacted with me as though I was an adult (even though I wasn't yet) -- no one talked down to me. Folks also really took care of me (paid for my meals, gave me rides home because they knew I had to take 2 buses to get to the restaurants we usually met in). We had a lot of fun eating out together and talking about life.

There was also the monthly national newsletter, in which members wrote in about their varied interests, from computers to chess to philosophy (this back in the early 90s when the Internet wasn't yet a thing). So many of my interests of that era came about from learning about new stuff through the newsletter. I remember having great fun corresponding via snail mail with people of like mind.

I can't vouch for the experience in every Mensa chapter (I have been in meetings which were full of hyper-rationalist types who were low in emotional intelligence), but the chapter I was part of during my formative years really left a mark on me. (in a good way)

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#244

Post by coldtea »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #205
coldtea wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more the fact that these are not all IQ tests.

That is not a fact; they are all IQ tests.

First of all, over 6 of the test listed do not give results in IQ points. So they're not nominally IQ tests.

Second, and more substantially, here's an explicit clarification for one of them (LSAT):

"The LSAT is not an IQ test. It does not measure intelligence the way IQ tests are designed to measure innate ability. A person who is very smart can receive a low LSAT score."

You can find similar declarations for the others (non-IQ) tests listed.

The LSAT is not an IQ test. It does not measure intelligence the way IQ tests are designed to measure innate ability. A person who is very smart can receive a low LSAT score.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#245

Post by rychco »

DaveExeter wrote: post #240
rychco wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd like to know the score your 22-24 year old candidate received on the SAT that he took when he was 17-19? How is that relevant?

SAT scores are the closest thing we have to a universal IQ test. I'd like to know the approximate IQ of a candidate. I recall reading somewhere that Google did a study on hires and found that the only thing that correlated with success at Google was SAT score. Not GPA, not specific college attended, etc.

While the literature does seem to support the theory that SAT is a good measure of intelligence, I still find myself jumping to the defense of candidates who may have scored poorly on the SAT. I feel it’s unfair to judge someone’s qualifications for a specific job NOW, based on the score they received on a basic general knowledge test in high school. I don’t like this idea either, but why wouldn’t college gpa be an even better measure? It’s more recent, relevant to the job they’re applying for (in most cases), and achieved independently of parental control (in most cases).

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#246

Post by coldtea »

wruza wrote: post #208
coldtea wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure exactly what Mensa does Gives a mermbership certificate and a number that they think they brag about to socially naive, gullible and arrogant (but otherwise smart), people (I say "think they can brag about" because nobody will actually be impressed by it, and it just makes them appear as crude idiots - IQ is not an accomplishment by itself, and the proof of genius is in genius work).

It’s your requirement though, not theirs. I’m not part of Mensa and have no chance neither will to join, but this attitude “do some genius work then we’ll talk” really annoys me. It’s unlikely that I will do, but if I did, we wouldn’t talk, cause who cares. Like they need to work hard to prove something to a stranger (I’d make it invalidate membership). Some people can beat that score, some cannot, that’s it. Social…

>I’m not part of Mensa and have no chance neither will to join, but this attitude “do some genius work then we’ll talk” really annoys me

It's not "do some genius work then we’ll talk" though.

It's more "Until you do some genius work don't brag to me about how smart you are in IQ points".

>It’s unlikely that I will do, but if I did, we wouldn’t talk, cause who cares.

It's actually the opposite: people do care about genius work others do, as it can be touching (e.g. in art), evolutionary (e.g. in science), impactful (in tech, etc).

Whereas people don't care for others' IQ scores or MENSA membership.

>Unsocial may do that for themselves, out of curiosity, for an idea, to fight with reality, because they can. But not to impress some guy out there.

Well, that's another thing, and we can respect that.

But MENSA members ofter are more annoying braggards than even vegans...

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#247

Post by ModernMech »

mirekrusin wrote: post #135
jacquesm wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be funny if the organization behind Mensa decided to re-test everybody on account of the COVID pandemic to ensure that their high standards are maintained and that members who drop below the required IQ for entry get culled accordingly. And of course ditto for those reaching a certain age, we would not want any accidental cases of Alzheimers posing as high IQ individuals now, would we?

You become Mensa member for life, ie. if you have brain injury and your IQ drops to 80, you're still Mensan.

> if you have brain injury and your IQ drops to 80, you're still Mensan.

I'd always assumed they were called Mensees.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#248

Post by Consultant32452 »

giantg2 wrote: post #232
thaumasiotes wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can respond to facts by saying "that's simply not true", but it's not going to be an effective way of convincing anyone else or of developing a coherent model of the world. The facts are that aptitude tests are psychometrically identical to IQ tests. They have the same characteristics and reveal the same information. Someone's score on an aptitude test as is predictive of their score on an IQ test as their score…

What you claim is counter to the intended uses of the tests and their very definitions. One measures innate flgeneral intelligence, whereas the other measures skill or acquired knowledge in a specific area. Then show me some sources to support your argument, because repeating false statements doesn't further your point either. https://www.theclassroom.com/intelligence-tests-vs-aptitude-...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient

>The many different kinds of IQ tests include a wide variety of item content. Some test items are visual, while many are verbal. Test items vary from being based on abstract-reasoning problems to concentrating on arithmetic, vocabulary, or general knowledge.

The SAT tests abstract reasoning (read a story and answer questions), arithmetic, vocabulary... It's an IQ test.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#249

Post by float4 »

bena wrote: post #113
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #26

Long, long ago, I came to the conclusion that intelligence was inversely related to sanity. Not a scientific observation, just that people who I knew who were very smart also tended to have difficulties in more ways than the people I knew who had typical intelligence. Typical issues were depression, insecurity, difficulty relating or communicating with others, ... Certainly you can find people with these issues in al…

You ever have to watch someone struggle with something you know how to do extremely well? Like watching someone take 5 seconds per keystroke because they have to hunt and peck on the keyboard while slowly and deliberately sounding out the letters they're typing? You know that feeling of wanting to just push them out of the way because you could get whatever completely done by the time they finish the next step in the…

> Now imagine your entire life was that.

No, because you should shape your life differently in that case. The people I know who were both intelligent and depressed dramatically improved their life by doing less thinking.

Exercise, play a musical instrument, explore nature, help people in need, go after that girl/guy you like.

But no. Instead, those aforementioned people spent the majority of their time doing stuff that require intelligence: solving hard problems, debating others "for fun", philosophising. And then, at the end of the day, they felt sorry for themselves because they were oh so intelligent.

Luckily they fixed their issues, and I'm convinced that most people who fall in this category can do the same.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#250

Post by zeleza »

gwern wrote: post #209

It's not true. No high-quality study, some of which go much higher than MENSA level, corroborates anything remotely like what they claim from their doubly-selected MENSA respondents self-reports: https://www.gwern.net/SMPY#fn1 For example, http://programme.exordo.com/isir2017/delegates/presentation/... looks at health in SMPY participants, which are a full SD or so above Mensans. If OP were true, they would have odds…

I agree, this is biased sample trash and Scientific American should feel bad about their reporting on this.
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