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Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

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Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the syllabus I was working through: https://web.archive.org/web/20040612155253/http://www.kamaka... It isn't obvious that asanas, breathing exercises, mantras and visualisation are somehow breaching any taboos of any society that I know of ;)

This is derived from kriya yoga, not Vāmācāra. Another similar online tutorial is https://www.aypsite.org/10.html . Real Vāmācāra by definition involves breaking all taboos - see this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hiKDMsIHn8 (warning - it is pretty horrific)

Thanks for the heads up. When the link said "vamachara" I just took it face value.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you ended the comment with an insulting fantasy of me. > Maybe you go through life constantly asserting and believing things that are in no way true....with no experience nor credentials nor having even read any literature to back any of them up... I would have loved to actually engage in a conversation on how vipassana meditation inevitably, whether it's after 8 hours or 8000 hours, leads to disassociation.…

Yeah it seemed weird to me that those got flagged but also in line with a lot of what I read here. If you have something authoritative to say about meditation, I may read it, but I don’t think you’re off to a good start so far. I’ve been getting the impression that you believe your speculation to be authoritative, which is dishonest and deluded. Sorry if this comes across as harsh, but you’ve yet to say anything that…

It certainly does come across as harsh, and is probably why you were flagged. In a debate, you simply don’t insult their intelligence, especially without evidence disproving their claims. You haven’t said why you’re an alleged expert on this subject, either. And regardless if either one of us are experts, that shouldn’t change a thing. If they’re truly ignorant, that can be quickly shown by counter arguments. HN’s toxicity has risen over the years, but we still strive to keep things civil. What’s magical about this community is that you _do_ come across experts, and through civil discourse you can learn a ton from them.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#243
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in contrast this the Christian raised Buddhist scholar Kenneth S Leong would juxtapose his analysis that Jesus' teachings were indeed like Zen teachings and that Jesus' form of prayer was the silent prayer very much equivalent to Eastern meditation. book: kenneth s leong the zen teachings of jesus https://g.co/kgs/79Znnu the silent prayer was also.identified with the "desert fathers" who have shaped much if the found…

Jesus' teachings are best understood in their historical, cultural, and geographical context. The superficial analogies that are drawn in the Zen Teachings of Jesus are an ad hoc theory imposed on rather than derived from the teachings of Jesus. It is similar to how some astrologist writers seek to put an astrological spin on the gospels to siphon off some of the star power of Jesus. It's religious parasitism. Jesus…

* the personal relationship with G'd in silent prayer is nonverbal. G'd knows all things, is part of all things, it makes no sense to tell G'd anything. hence: *silent* prayer. It __does___ make sense to listen though , with your heart. And in the gentle *felt* presence your wounds may heal, and your love may grow. why *felt* presence? because G'd is everywhere, where else would G'd be. so you don't pray for G'ds presence. you pray to immerse into it.

* this immersion is not about fancy mystical experiences, but about healing in the presence of what as Christians we call G'd; it often is initially calm, then happy, ecstatic to some, and then that makes room for neither ecstasy nor void but pure presence, a state that can be experienced, but not described appropriately. On that path there lays and lurks inner work on your personal baggage, a liberating cleansing process, which is not only fun while it lasts, and a process which contemplative teachers today could call 'purifications'. The beatifications of the sermon on the mount give a fairly good step by step guidance of this purification process which leads to life "in Christo", as Paul describes it.

* contemplative or silent prayer was and is an outlier, yes, however certainly not in early Christianity, see the sibling comment for a random quick example https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26497034

* contemplative / silent prayer, like comparable Jewish and Islamic traditions, and like a number of eastern traditions, puts the experiential personal liberation above authoritative teachings of some church or another. It's a radical shift of authority from rulebooks and logical learning to an inner process, guided and supported by open minded teachers.

* I respectfully doubt you have read the book. It is anything but superficial.

May I ask if you have personal experience with any kind of meditation, secular (like MBSR) or in some religious tradition?

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it seemed weird to me that those got flagged but also in line with a lot of what I read here. If you have something authoritative to say about meditation, I may read it, but I don’t think you’re off to a good start so far. I’ve been getting the impression that you believe your speculation to be authoritative, which is dishonest and deluded. Sorry if this comes across as harsh, but you’ve yet to say anything that…

It certainly does come across as harsh, and is probably why you were flagged. In a debate, you simply don’t insult their intelligence, especially without evidence disproving their claims. You haven’t said why you’re an alleged expert on this subject, either. And regardless if either one of us are experts, that shouldn’t change a thing. If they’re truly ignorant, that can be quickly shown by counter arguments. HN’s to…

I actually haven’t insulted your intelligence.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It certainly does come across as harsh, and is probably why you were flagged. In a debate, you simply don’t insult their intelligence, especially without evidence disproving their claims. You haven’t said why you’re an alleged expert on this subject, either. And regardless if either one of us are experts, that shouldn’t change a thing. If they’re truly ignorant, that can be quickly shown by counter arguments. HN’s to…

I actually haven’t insulted your intelligence.

From the posts still visible:

> Shockingly ignorant and dismissive of you.

> I'm not assuming. You've demonstrated your knowledge on the subject. (insinuating I have little knowledge on the subject)

> Maybe you go through life constantly asserting and believing things that are in no way true....with no experience nor credentials nor having even read any literature to back any of them up...

If you don’t find these offensive, you may have thicker skin than most, but it’s still best to leave them out.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#246
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m in complete agreement, and will add that significant parts of a person’s personality can develop as a mechanism to mask or manage trauma, and that can end up suffusing all of their choices and relationships. A sudden confrontation with this can be completely destabilizing.

I've written a detailed explanation above, but want to address a concern of you: > A sudden confrontation with this can be completely destabilizing. Many ways force a confrontation, and that's indeed dangerous. However, it doesn't have to be like that. Emotions are like onions. They're layered. Slow practice and slow advancement naturally brings practitioners to outer layers of these onions, which are easier to under…

I’m well aware of this, and have been meditating for much longer than 7 years.

I’ve also spent time with numerous different meditation groups from different traditions.

My experience is that they vary a lot.

> You face only what you're ready for. We have safeguards against it.

Your particular community may have safeguards.

That is simply not true in the general case as the linked article asserts.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually haven’t insulted your intelligence.

From the posts still visible: > Shockingly ignorant and dismissive of you. > I'm not assuming. You've demonstrated your knowledge on the subject. (insinuating I have little knowledge on the subject) > Maybe you go through life constantly asserting and believing things that are in no way true....with no experience nor credentials nor having even read any literature to back any of them up... If you don’t find these off…

I didn’t say nobody would find them offensive.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the posts still visible: > Shockingly ignorant and dismissive of you. > I'm not assuming. You've demonstrated your knowledge on the subject. (insinuating I have little knowledge on the subject) > Maybe you go through life constantly asserting and believing things that are in no way true....with no experience nor credentials nor having even read any literature to back any of them up... If you don’t find these off…

I didn’t say nobody would find them offensive.

Then you were rightly flagged.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the posts still visible: > Shockingly ignorant and dismissive of you. > I'm not assuming. You've demonstrated your knowledge on the subject. (insinuating I have little knowledge on the subject) > Maybe you go through life constantly asserting and believing things that are in no way true....with no experience nor credentials nor having even read any literature to back any of them up... If you don’t find these off…

I didn’t say nobody would find them offensive.

[deleted]

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t say nobody would find them offensive.

Then you were rightly flagged.

I can believe that you might believe that, but you’ve also demonstrated a lack of reality based belief, so excuse me if I don’t care what you think.
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