Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

medtechdive.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 283 posts

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#241

Post by ryanbrunner »

leetcrew wrote: post #240
ryanbrunner wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the perspective of most of the world, having to limit yourselves to medical care that's provided by a particular company seems very broken. (unless I'm misunderstanding how Kaiser works). I can just go to whatever walk-in clinic, urgent care provider or emergency room I need, depending on the severity and get treatment (I do try to go to my GP if possible, but I have many options if that's not practical for some…

> From the perspective of most of the world, having to limit yourselves to medical care that's provided by a particular company seems very broken. from the perspective of some people in the US, this is exactly what socialized medicine looks like, except you can't change the company.

Most countries that have socialized healthcare still have private providers - the government is paying for healthcare, but they're taking on the role of the insurance provider rather than the healthcare provider.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#242

Post by mattmcknight »

A simple change- providers offering the same transparent price to all patients would make things so much simpler. (and by this I mean different providers could charge different prices, but one provider can't charge different patients different prices.)

It removes the whole in-network/out-network scam. It removes the whole process of negotiating prices with insurers.

Transparent pricing is the baby step in this direction that reveals the problem. The hope was that it would at least provide negotiating power for payers when they see what the other payers are getting. Let's just take the next step and make them commit to pricing ahead of time.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#243

Post by heavyset_go »

aantix wrote: post #224
hippira wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously he and his mother has already paid for in taxes, zero cost here is in the sense that the cost is not going to eat into their current savings. While in the US you paid taxes and can still potentially go bankrupt if you have major diseases.

But their current savings is lower because of their higher taxes.

I pay for health insurance on the individual market, without employer or government subsidies. It's a shitty plan that I pay over $9k in premiums for and have a $3k deductible with an $8k out of pocket maximum each year with co-pays, and that's without utilizing the plan at all.

If I wanted to buy the same plan I had from an employer, a family plan, it would cost over $30k in premiums, with an $8k deductible and a $17k out of pocket maximum each year with co-pays.

All of those costs and it is still routine for the insured in the US to find out that the care they received actually isn't covered by their insurance, as well, so they're on the hook for paying for some care completely out of pocket.

I would love to hear your explanation for how my savings is actually higher now while I'm being extorted each year with higher and higher premiums for less and less care.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#244

Post by MystK »

Cederfjard wrote: post #201
MystK wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you think that. There are definitely people who think universal healthcare will cost nothing.

Like, small children? What adult doesn’t understand that there are costs in performing health care?

I mean links are everywhere if you search...

https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/484301-22...

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/01/416416/single-payer-system...

https://www.courthousenews.com/study-universal-health-care-i...

https://pnhp.org/news/implementing-a-universal-healthcare-sy...

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#245

Post by MystK »

heavyset_go wrote: post #199
MystK wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you think that. There are definitely people who think universal healthcare will cost nothing.

Again, sounds like a strawman argument to me. Have any examples of people who think that?

Sure it's written about all the time.

https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/484301-22...

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/01/416416/single-payer-system...

https://www.courthousenews.com/study-universal-health-care-i...

https://pnhp.org/news/implementing-a-universal-healthcare-sy...

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#246

Post by heavyset_go »

MystK wrote: post #245
heavyset_go wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, sounds like a strawman argument to me. Have any examples of people who think that?

Sure it's written about all the time. https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/484301-22... https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/01/416416/single-payer-system... https://www.courthousenews.com/study-universal-health-care-i... https://pnhp.org/news/implementing-a-universal-healthcare-sy...

> https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/484301-22...

I'm struggling to find where this author concludes that universal healthcare is free like free energy from a perpetual motion machine. Can't find it.

Could it be that you're misinterpreting the repetition of the fact that countries with universal healthcare have better health outcomes, and yet pay less than half of what we do for healthcare, with it somehow being completely free? The same fact that's repeated in the title "22 studies agree: 'Medicare for All' saves money"?

Which of those 22 studies claims that cheaper healthcare with better outcomes is the result of free labor?

Looking at the rest of links, it seems to me that you believe that anyone claiming, with evidence, that universal healthcare saves money somehow thinks that universal healthcare doesn't cost anything.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#247

Post by DanBC »

MystK wrote: post #244
Cederfjard wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like, small children? What adult doesn’t understand that there are costs in performing health care?

I mean links are everywhere if you search... https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/484301-22... https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/01/416416/single-payer-system... https://www.courthousenews.com/study-universal-health-care-i... https://pnhp.org/news/implementing-a-universal-healthcare-sy...

None of these links say what you're claiming they say.

Your courthouse link:

> “For me, the important lesson is that single payer can re-direct huge resources – about $700 billion per year in the U.S. – from insurance paperwork and excessive drug prices to clinical care. In other words, with a simplified payment system, we can afford to insure everyone and with high quality insurance – broad benefits, minimal cost-sharing, choice of provider,” Kahn said in an email.

Your UCSF link:

> The U.S. spends more on healthcare than any other country, yet is one of only a few developed nations that does not provide universal coverage. Under proposed single payer bills, such as “Medicare for All,” a unified public financing system would replace private insurance, similar to the healthcare system in Canada and many other wealthy nations.

Your pnhp link:

> Honoring a rather unpleasant tradition, the September issue of Health Affairs published yet another peer-reviewed study confirming that administrative costs in the U.S. healthcare system are the highest in the world. These administrative costs do not improve patient care. They pay for more administrators.

> Each American physician requires 10 administrators to stay in business. Why does American healthcare require twice as many administrators as any other healthcare system?

None of these are saying single payer healthcare is free. They're saying the US system is fantastically expensive, and single payer would be cheaper and better.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#248

Post by zie »

bane wrote: post #134
zie wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Senators and congresspeople get their own very high quality insurance. They have no incentive to fix it, their own health care is world-class.

That's too easy an answer. They get basically the same options for health insurance as other federal employees. And that insurance is not materially different from the insurance you'd get from any other major employer.

They get world-class insurance. They do pay for it, but I never said it was free.

Incentives matter. If Senators & Congress people were given only medicare and not their ACA Gold plan + perks, medicare would probably be a lot better off.

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#249

Post by throw123123123 »

Gravityloss wrote: post #205
throw123123123 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kaiser is popular and 'a' model of care, but do note that it is extremely limited in coverage and is one of the most draconian in respect to providers. They hire people right out of medschool with the offer to pay their entire student debt if they stay with them for 8 years. They have massive burn out.

Hmm is that kind of a contract legal? What happens if a person leaves after four years?

You have to return the entire amount of student debt. Kind of how signup bonuses work in tech, but this is for 8 years

Re: Hospitals lift curtain on prices, reveals giant swings for hips, knees and more

#250

Post by zo1 »

rsj_hn wrote: post #210
zo1 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen first hand the opposite in my country, where free market private health care is working almost near perfection. All it takes is minimal regulation and then watching the healthy patient incentives aligning with the profit motive without government meddling. And I've been watching in real time as the government is actively blocking and preventing this same functioning private healthcare system from acquiring…

Curious, which country are you referring to?

South Africa...I looked on the wiki page for it now, and it doesn't do the state of healthcare here justice.
Post reply on HN