Thinking too much can be bad for you (2012) • Hacker News Board

Re: Thinking too much can be bad for you (2012)

#241

Post by hnick » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 11:15 PM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #160

float4 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm exactly the same, only I've done it ever since I was very little and it simply never went away (I'm in my early 20s now). Usually I'm awake in my bed for at least an hour. Sometimes two. I just really can't stop thinking. It's not anxiety in my case. Any people here who were in a similar situation and were able to get rid of it, or make significant improvement?

Engagement, exercise and melatonin. Be engaged during the day. Use that mental energy. Whatever that means, but challenge yourself and exhaust yourself. Exercise which is just generally really good for your mental and physical state. Do note that working out later at night can make the problem worse since exercises also causes stress chemicals in your brain and it takes a few hours for those to clear. Melatonin[1] an…

I tried melatonin a couple of times and it didn't seem to help. Note also it's not available OTC here in Australia (except in the useless homeopathic form) you need a prescription, but you can bring it back from overseas if you like. Which is a little annoying. They're working on making CBD oil available (also not currently) OTC) but not melatonin unless I missed that.

Re: Thinking too much can be bad for you (2012)

#242

Post by hnick » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 11:19 PM UTC

mcjkrw wrote: post #194

hnick wrote: post #66

Thinking keeps me awake. It's getting worse as I get older. Maybe it's anxiety or something related, and sometimes it's worried thoughts, but often it's just running through scenarios. Video games, media plots, what I need to do next week. My brain is far more active after 10pm, and I am personally more motivated. I get a burst of energy but it's not really the right time to clean the house so lying in bed has it all…

What type of meditation did you try? Try following / counting breaths. Definitely counting in the beginning, breathe out, 1, breathe in, breathe out, 2, breathe in ... up to 10, then re-start to 1. Do it for 20 min before falling asleep. Then as you try to fall asleep do the same. Don't be discouraged if it's not working right away. It has to work but you may need months of training before it starts to work well. The…

I've done a few meditation podcasts where a guy talks and I follow along, and as soon as it ends I'm relaxed but more alert. If my power trips overnight and the noise (fans or other electrical background noise) suddenly stops, I jerk awake. This is the same.

I've tried counting back from 5000 slowly on each breath. I got very far before stopping. Going backwards with large numbers is meant to take a bit more mental energy I think.

I've done the 1-10 then reset, we did that in Yoga at the gym. I've also done the box breathing where you breathe in and out slowly but at different rates.

I think mostly it will come down to practice like anything else. I get upset if it doesn't work but I enjoy ruminating so it's hard to let go. In many of these techniques I was very relaxed but still had an attentive core stopping the sleep from happening.

Re: Thinking too much can be bad for you (2012)

#243

Post by eevilspock » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 11:22 PM UTC

airhead969 wrote: post #214

eevilspock wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alcohol definitely cuts out the overthinking, or any thinking at all. If you are a good soul at heart, the real you that comes out when inebriated can be quite charming, and the opposite if you the real you is a jerk. But it isn't the always greatest thing for the actual sex.

In vino veritas. Tipsy vs. whiskey dick. These are so obvious, I don't see why they need mentioning or explanation.

You're overthinking. Have a drink.

Re: Thinking too much can be bad for you (2012)

#244

Post by hnick » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 11:29 PM UTC

BatteryMountain wrote: post #182

hnick wrote: post #66

Thinking keeps me awake. It's getting worse as I get older. Maybe it's anxiety or something related, and sometimes it's worried thoughts, but often it's just running through scenarios. Video games, media plots, what I need to do next week. My brain is far more active after 10pm, and I am personally more motivated. I get a burst of energy but it's not really the right time to clean the house so lying in bed has it all…

If you are not on any brain altering medication (or other drugs), try chamomile tea before bed time. Please read up on the chemical profile of chamomile tea as it will interact with certain brain medications (start here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2995283/ ). Reducing artificial light after sundown and cutting out caffeine and listening to slow placed instrumental music (key being that there are no…

Thanks, I'm glad it works for you. I might check if we still have some chamomile tea since I've never made a habit of it. And Kindle on my phone is probably risky because it's right next to the bad engagement-algorithm stuff, maybe I need to pick up some paper books.

For the rest - every time I read something like this I think about my wife, for two reasons.

One - any ritual will force her to do the same and play along but that might be asking a lot if its against her natural inclinations. She tends to want to stay up late (like me) and gets some of her best work done then. If I go to bed alone, then if she is still in the house (so I know she is coming along later) that anticipation alone is usually enough to keep me awake.

Two - she doesn't need any of that. Why can she fall asleep in 5 minutes after reading her phone in bed and breaking every single rule people give me? It always bothers me and I get very jealous :)

Re: Thinking too much can be bad for you (2012)

#245

Post by colechristensen » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 11:59 PM UTC

username90 wrote: post #152

colechristensen wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Close but no, thinking vs doing.

You can't do without thinking.

Like riding a bicycle, there is a whole lot you do without the consciousness forward thinking about it.

Sure pieces of your brain are actually doing the mechanics of controlling your body and thus the bicycle... but you aren't thinking about it consciously (mostly).

Imagine posing a dummy walking down the street in stop-motion animation. You are very consciously controlling every aspect, every tiny movement is subject to your awareness and decision. Compared to walking down the street yourself. You don't think about balancing, placing each step, contracting and releasing dozens of muscles in sync... it just happens. Sure sometimes you make very explicit decisions on where to step, to avoid a puddle or dog shit or whatever, but most of the time all of that is way outside of conscious control, you just do it.

Re: Thinking too much can be bad for you (2012)

#246

Post by Layke1123 » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

bloodorange wrote: post #238

Layke1123 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what do you do about thoughts of others suffering while you live the good life? Do these kind of thoughts ever keep you up or torment you? Or how do you view a life of luxury while others die at a young age?

If you want to go down that line of thought, you would still have to concede that without adequate sleep, you will be ineffective. In either case, lying in bed, unable to sleep, thinking about those things doesn't lead to anything positive (in my view). Even Gandhi had to sleep. Feeling guilty and the victim mindset are different sides of the same coin here. Neither is productive.

Neither is not thinking about these things. If you only ever think of yourself, how is that an any more justifiable position than "over thinking" these things? I don't think feeling guilty and the victim mindset are different side of the same coin. It is much easier to feel guilty for not having suffered through something like rape than the actual victims of rape.

I'm often reminding of the saying, "All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing."

Clearly there are two sides and somewhere in the middle is ideal. Question is, where do you feel that middle is?

Re: Thinking too much can be bad for you (2012)

#247

Post by Layke1123 » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 9:19 PM UTC

Robotbeat wrote: post #239

Layke1123 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So new taxes to support the infrastructure that allows feeless ACH/payments? Not saying I'm for or against, I'm just trying to understand your argument in full. It seems like the logical way that your idea would be funded.

The Nordic countries have instant payments. It doesn't actually cost anything extra (just the usual flat fee, maybe $0.20 to $1... although for smaller payments like for a candy bar, you could choose a 0.5% to 1% fee which might be cheaper...), except for companies that gain from rents they charge for wire transfers, etc. Here's an example from the Nordic countries: https://nordicpayments.eu/p27-the-payment-gamechang…

Ahh, so transaction fees fund the infrastructure. Makes sense. I guess what do we do with any excess generated by those fees? Reinvest into the infrastructure? Have it in a safety box for a day when the fees can't cover the cost in the short term? Interesting things to consider I think, but that does flesh that idea out more. I wonder, do they also offer state run accounts instead of private banks holding cash?

Re: Thinking too much can be bad for you (2012)

#248

Post by bloodorange » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 4:10 AM UTC

Layke1123 wrote: post #246

bloodorange wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to go down that line of thought, you would still have to concede that without adequate sleep, you will be ineffective. In either case, lying in bed, unable to sleep, thinking about those things doesn't lead to anything positive (in my view). Even Gandhi had to sleep. Feeling guilty and the victim mindset are different sides of the same coin here. Neither is productive.

Neither is not thinking about these things. If you only ever think of yourself, how is that an any more justifiable position than "over thinking" these things? I don't think feeling guilty and the victim mindset are different side of the same coin. It is much easier to feel guilty for not having suffered through something like rape than the actual victims of rape. I'm often reminding of the saying, "All it takes for…

Rather than an individual thought, consider the "line of reasoning" or "train of thought" and then consider again where it leads.

From two comments, it is hard to see whether your usage of "you" is rhetorical or whether you mean me in particular.

The easy case is the latter and for that I'll say that, I would be rather surprised if you had an accurate idea of what kind of a life I led and how much suffering is in my day-to-day life.

Let's go to the other instance, where you are speaking in general using the rhetorical "you". Here, I agree that there is a lot of suffering in this world. I'll take a specific case of it - hunger. There are a lot of hungry people in this world: even children dying of starvation. We have only considered humans so far. Imagine a little kitten somewhere abandoned by his mother (or just lost) and crying out in hunger (I've found a few like this). The question then arises: How can you eat any meal in peace? Does anyone have a right to eat in peace as long as involuntary hunger exists? Are they "permitted" to eat without guilt or shame? What if one eats a sandwich? What if it is rice? What if it is rice and chicken? What if it's an ice-cream? What if it's chocolate fondue? What if it's a king's feast?

I was unable to see any other natural end to that line of reasoning except a monastic life. Does that mean that when a butcher buys ice-cream for his little daughter, this act should in fact give them both guilt and shame instead of joy? This is not a simple matter if you were to think about how to thresh it out by taking both sides and pitting them against each other in your mind.

I have lived among people of very "opposing" cultures (different countries). Guilt features prominently in one of them. In my view, it is a kind of abuse to foist such a mindset on a young mind and teach a child that one has to look at an activity so natural and important as eating (or sleeping) and feel guilt or shame because of it. How does this not increase suffering? If one's ideal is to work towards diminishing suffering in this world, is causing more of it (to others or to oneself) the right method? In either case, why? And then follows the rationalists question to the idealist: "Will that work?"

If I were to be entirely honest, I do not think this medium can serve well to settle this matter. If we had met in person, I'd have been happy to share a meal with you and learn where each of us is headed. Not that that would settle it of course but it is much easier to debate such matters in those circumstances. I wish you luck and hope that you find a path to what you seek.

Re: Thinking too much can be bad for you (2012)

#249

Post by Layke1123 » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 7:39 PM UTC

bloodorange wrote: post #248

Layke1123 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither is not thinking about these things. If you only ever think of yourself, how is that an any more justifiable position than "over thinking" these things? I don't think feeling guilty and the victim mindset are different side of the same coin. It is much easier to feel guilty for not having suffered through something like rape than the actual victims of rape. I'm often reminding of the saying, "All it takes for…

Rather than an individual thought, consider the "line of reasoning" or "train of thought" and then consider again where it leads. From two comments, it is hard to see whether your usage of "you" is rhetorical or whether you mean me in particular. The easy case is the latter and for that I'll say that, I would be rather surprised if you had an accurate idea of what kind of a life I led and how much suffering is in my…

There is a very clear difference i think in suffering when you make someone aware of others suffering versus those people living through suffering. The idea isn't that one must suffer in order to live. The idea is that once aware of said suffering, are you not compelled to help? I elect leaders who support ending human suffering through aid.

What I dont do is pretend it is an issue that I need not take any part in resolving. Nor do I advocate a monastic lifestyle. I simply say there is a middle that is ideal, and if so, why are we not compelled to take that position less we be hypocrites?

Re: Thinking too much can be bad for you (2012)

#250

Post by vorpalhex » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

hnick wrote: post #241

vorpalhex wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engagement, exercise and melatonin. Be engaged during the day. Use that mental energy. Whatever that means, but challenge yourself and exhaust yourself. Exercise which is just generally really good for your mental and physical state. Do note that working out later at night can make the problem worse since exercises also causes stress chemicals in your brain and it takes a few hours for those to clear. Melatonin[1] an…

I tried melatonin a couple of times and it didn't seem to help. Note also it's not available OTC here in Australia (except in the useless homeopathic form) you need a prescription, but you can bring it back from overseas if you like. Which is a little annoying. They're working on making CBD oil available (also not currently) OTC) but not melatonin unless I missed that.

Huh, I'm actually surprised it's not OTC in Australia. Any idea why it's not widely available?

I haven't tried CBD oil at all (save one time I accidentally got a canned coffee with cbd added to it). I have one friend who reports positive effects but doesn't use it consistently.