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China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

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241–250 of 371 posts

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RFE/RFA's reporting will never, ever, ever undercut US geopolitical interests.

Is the allegation in this case that RFA is misreporting this story in order to avoid undercutting US geopolitical interests? It seems like the goalposts are moving in a way that still doesn't support the implied accusation.

In this particular case, IMO, 2 things are true:

* The linked story is way out over it's skis, pulling together partial opinions from a bunch of sources to make a definitive claim that is not really supported. I doubt the Party themselves have even reached a firm decision on the matter yet.

* The (minor!) Radio Free Asia link is a random person they were interviewing, who gave an opinion. It's not RFA's official opinion on the matter, but I'll opine that they pick and choose who they have on based on US interests, that's their charter and raison d'etre.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China's 1.3B population is not equal. around 700M still lives on $140/month income, with no education to "accomplish anything they want". It will have 500M 65 year olds by 2050, too old to "accomplish anything they want". China suffers brain drain to the West. Many of Chinese Ph.D students and scientists I know curse the day Xi Jing Ping declared himself to be the emperor, and is actively moving their families out of…

>advanced semiconductor or airplane engine... Not to disagree, but I believe it's just a matter of time. They're working hard in these areas. Also, recent stats I read somewhere say Chinese Ph.D.'s are returning to China in increasing numbers these days, somewhere around 50% or more compared to the old days when the majority stayed in America or Europe.

there's also alot more chinese students studying abroad, compared to the old days. The creme of the crop stays, and the rest goes back.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Billionaires can be held more accountable than government because they must continually compete for people's dollars. Movements like the Chick-Fil-A boycott and #deletefacebook do hurt companies and billionaires and can force a change in behavior quickly. There's no feedback loop like that with the CCP, and the US gives citizens more power but having to wait 4 years to vote on a change is a very slow feedback loop.

> Billionaires can be held more accountable than government because they must continually compete for people's dollars. I don't know what to answer that except that it's the quickest way to get a fascist regime that doesn't even try to hide it's fascist. Monopolies don't need to compete with people's dollars. > Movements like the Chick-Fil-A boycott and #deletefacebook do hurt companies None of these movements really…

We can and should break up monopolies, or structure taxes and regulations to be unfavorable to monopolies. Current government policies favor large corporations due to both tax incentives and regulatory capture.

Chick-Fil-A stopped donating to anti-LGBTQ groups. #deletefacebook did work but most users just switched to instagram so it had a minimal effect on revenue.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is not really much of a reason to believe this. Economically successful nationalization do happen. The main reason why the CCP is considering nationalizing Ant Financial is because their economists are afraid of the negative economic impacts it may have. The same thing happened in my province, where the power generation industry was nationalized for economic reasons and ended up being a massive economic advanta…

Are there success stories apart from utilities and companies involved in the exploitation natural resources?

There have been success stories in the healthcare and financial sector too.

That being said, the example I'm giving here is actually a lot more than just a utility company - there is also a profitable R&D arm that did a lot of work on LTO and LiFePO4 that found its way to market, as well as has a successful construction arm.

It also did consulting work for the Three Gorges Dam in China notably but also a lot of other projects.

There is also an electric bus project that is in current development with a partnership with Volvo and Novabus as well as a Chinese/Italian/American/Quebec electric motor manufacturing joint venture, that has shipped a few dozen buses locally and is being considered for international orders.

So, I think that it can fairly be said that nationalized companies can be successful beyond simply utilities and natural resource exploitation.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#245
post #196
post #95

Guo Wengui said back in September 2019 that "Jack Ma would be jailed or killed" on Kyle Bass's youtube channel. [1] At this point its not even a question of whether we will see Jack Ma in public again. Overnight he went from billionaire to peasantry. We've seen dozen cases like this: 1) Billionaire disappears or is "killed" 2) Billionaire's company becomes nationalized 3) Rinse & Repeat Everybody who isn't familiar w…

It's sad to see unsubstantiated hearsay as the top comment. I'm sure every billionaire in China has multiple escape routes. Guo Wengui certainly did, nor is he a "peasant."

I'd be surprised if Jack Ma didn't.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#247
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's it working in the U.S. where billionaires are dissolving the U.S. government?

It is working well in my opinion. I would rather live in a world where billionaires are happy to dissolve a corrupt and disgusting politician than other way around.

What you're seeing isn't billionares vs. government, but warring billionaires via government.

Belligerents are difficult to suss out, but the Mercers, Adelson, Kochs, Murdochs, Larry Ellison, Peter Thiel, possibly Mark Zuckerberg on one side. Bezos, Gates, Steiner, on the other

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#248
post #95

Guo Wengui said back in September 2019 that "Jack Ma would be jailed or killed" on Kyle Bass's youtube channel. [1] At this point its not even a question of whether we will see Jack Ma in public again. Overnight he went from billionaire to peasantry. We've seen dozen cases like this: 1) Billionaire disappears or is "killed" 2) Billionaire's company becomes nationalized 3) Rinse & Repeat Everybody who isn't familiar w…

The blame mainly lies with the Xi dictatorship, where as previously the CCP was ruled by committee. I can't imagine the CCP doing this in the era before Xi and post Deng Xiaoping. imo the CCP is gone. It's the Xi Jinping Party now

The good news for the West and China's Asian competitors is that he is effectively helping slow and cripple China's progress. Xi advocates a return to Mao centralism while ignoring all the good that came with Deng Xiaoping's decentralization reforms. With this act, he is also introducing a lot of uncertainty for any foreign investors. This gives the West time to recuperate since the failure of the anti-BRIC TPP.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#249

Wow.. this is like a giant gift to Amazon. Obviously they aren't getting more Chinese business, but they've struggled there already. But it makes it a lot easier for them to compete everywhere else. Competing against CCP is going to be a lot easier than competing against Jack Ma.

Let's play this out. Suppose the CCP does nationalize BABA, and as a result Amazon starts beating it. Over time Amazon comes to dominate Chinese ecommerce, with hundreds of billions of yuan flowing from Chinese consumers to Bezos' pocket. Bezos then says something critical of the CCP. How is this scenario likely to develop after that point?

I'd be very interested to see what the CCP would do in that instance. I don't believe they've gone after Western billionaires in the same way that they've gone after their own before.

Also, with Bezos being the (second) richest person in the world, and with Amazon being very much a household name, I wonder if they would risk the backlash from Western governments and private entities if they were to carry out a "disappearing act" on Bezos.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the CCP is mostly at fault. They wanted to control and limit discussion and even news on alibaba so of course people are going to speculate in the absence of information.

Misunderstanding about the inner workings of China isn't the CCP's fault, at least not at this level. The discourse about China, misunderstandings about how the Chinese systems functions, and lack of even a basic interest in getting a realistic view of China are rampant. The average view of China in the US is so cartoonish it's quite ridiculous. If you talk to an educated, middle-class Chinese audience about the US p…

Hmmm... I'd agree that many people in the west don't have much of an idea how China or the CCP work. Calling them communist is pretty hilarious even if the word is in their name. The country has grown into it's own new empire much more like those of old, I think shaped by the expectations and education of its people.

I'd also agree that because many of China's educated upper class (political and economic) have been schooled or at least traveled or met foreigners from the US or other democracies, they understand many of the mechanics. However, I would completely disagree that even a bare majority of Chinese have much conception at all how western politics work. Even those who are educated in the US/Europe rarely understand politics except at a single point in time.

I would count myself as one who has a fair knowledge of politics and business in China having spent almost 2 decades traveling and working with businesses there. I have some understanding of their history, socialization and education, as well as, business practices. What I can say is that they are very different depending on where you are (Shenzhen/HK vs Shanghai vs Beijing vs Chongqing). They speak differently, they live differently, and they do business differently. Also, China's politico-economic environment has changed very significantly in the past 20 years often with political leaders. and Xi has been one of the more rapid/dramatic changes.

I've learned that I do not understand the inner workings of China/CCP... even the workings of the US political system over the last 4 years border on incomprehensible. I would say that some of the business people I have seen most taken advantage of are Chinese expatriates who invested back into their homes and had relatively large businesses taken from them, because they thought they understood - align your interests carefully with someone who is on the ground or even family can take everything (this wasn't a single instance).

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