The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire • Hacker News Board

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#241

Post by insickness » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 1:31 AM UTC

mpoteat wrote: post #127

nprz wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think payment processors and ISPs should be able to deny service to customers for any arbitrary reason as well?

As long as it isn't due to a protected class reason, I don't immediately see the problem. If you break your ISPs TOS, or you commit fraud, it makes sense that those private companies would not want you as a customer.

If this is your argument then you should be against laws that prevent discrimination against a protected class. If the markets are efficient enough to account for free speech issues, i.e. someone can just start another facebook/youtube, the markets should be efficient enough to correct themselves for companies that decide to discriminate against protected classes, i.e. someone can just start another facebook/youtube.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#242

Post by worldofmatthew » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 1:32 AM UTC

charonn0 wrote: post #164

souprock wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a fine argument for why the phone company should be free to disconnect anybody who speaks ill of the phone company.

That would involve eavesdropping on a private conversation, and as such the analogy falls flat (also since you pay them directly for a service.)

or they could search social media and disconnect users they dislike.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#243

Post by dragontamer » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 1:33 AM UTC

dathinab wrote: post #234

olefoo wrote: post #150

This is all the result of confusing 1st amendment rights with the right to access the audience that gathers at a particular URL. What Taibbi is asking for is that the guy who tells you that drinking rat poison is good for you should be allowed an audience and that even putting a warning alongside the video would be an infringement on his rights. Looking at the comments here I have to conclude that HN is no longer on…

> What Taibbi is asking for is that the guy who tells you that drinking rat poison is good for you should be allowed an audience He should, it's the basis of democracy. Sure rat poison is a bad example, but thinks are much less clear cut if we speak about other things, including covid19. So putting up warnings about this problems (potential more then just a subtle note at the side) is reasonable removing it is much l…

> He should, it's the basis of democracy.

Do you support the election that happened on November 3rd 2020? Then you must support the results of the election, whether you like the election results, or not.

THAT is the basis of Democracy: the peaceful transfer of power based on the votes. If you do not respect the votes, then Democracy falls apart. You literally cannot have a Democracy without votes (while we had a Democracy through WW2 despite the "Office of Censorship").

We have a very, very large group of people who are now using free speech to destroy our trust in the election. We are now left with a decision: Free Speech vs Election.

My gut says that elections are more important than free speech. Historically, we have had times without any free speech what-so-ever (WWII / Office of Censorship). Its a luxury we can do without in times of crisis.

We cannot afford to lose faith in the election process. Period.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#244

Post by will4274 » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 1:33 AM UTC

ayroblu wrote: post #28

I never understood why American conservatives want more government oversight over private companies that offer services for free

Did you read the article? There is nothing in the article in support of government oversight of private companies. Rather, the article argues that private companies should choose to do the right thing, and that consumers should take their business to companies who choose to do the right thing.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#245

Post by 93po » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 1:33 AM UTC

travisoneill1 wrote: post #193

Thank god for all of the people at Youtube working on censoring misinformation. They are so much smarter than me and obviously better than me at figuring out what is true and what isn't! And isn't it great that they always act selflessly in favor of the truth and never in the narrow interest of Google? I don't know what I would do if I didn't have them there to protect me from the dangerous misinformation. I am so he…

We've always been at war with Eastasia

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#246

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 1:34 AM UTC

metabagel wrote: post #195

prucomaclu2 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This woman's testimony starts at 1:34:40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZXkAv7yKgw&list=UU8Ioh4atND... I use this example because I find it particularly blatant, but there are many examples to choose from. According to her testimony, ballots which had two intentional marks (e.g., one for Biden, and one for Trump) would go to Biden. When she raised challenges to this, she was ignored. When she escalated to the super…

Bear in mind that she's a self-described "poll challenger", which is a partisan position. We can reasonably infer that she is a strong supporter of Trump and therefore is not impartial.

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Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#247

Post by tick_tock_tick » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 1:34 AM UTC

belorn wrote: post #203

olefoo wrote: post #150

This is all the result of confusing 1st amendment rights with the right to access the audience that gathers at a particular URL. What Taibbi is asking for is that the guy who tells you that drinking rat poison is good for you should be allowed an audience and that even putting a warning alongside the video would be an infringement on his rights. Looking at the comments here I have to conclude that HN is no longer on…

Is it legal in the US to encourage people to jump in front of a train? If the answer is no then telling people to drink rat poison is illegal. The legal system has the power to punish the uploader, and youtube can remove it just as it do with copyright infringements. If the answer is yes then I would suggest to change the law. Pushing people to drink rat poison sound awful close to harassment, which is just the kind…

> Is it legal in the US to encourage people to jump in front of a train?

Yes

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#248

Post by souprock » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 1:34 AM UTC

modriano wrote: post #231

swiley wrote: post #2

If you reject the idea that people are intelligent enough to think about politics for themselves then you reject the idea that they're intelligent enough to govern themselves. Democracy and free speech are intrinsically linked.

An individual's understanding of the world is shaped exclusively by the signals produced by their 5 senses. Intelligence governs an individual's ability to interpret those signals and draw further conclusions from those interpreted signals, but if that individual is fed a constant stream of bad yet internally-consistent data, correct application of logic and reason will lead that individual to objectively incorrect c…

What exactly does a hand recount confirm? What is the point, when the accusation had nothing to do with counting? The accusation is that fraudulent ballots were mixed in with the legitimate ones. Recounting the contaminated pile tells us exactly what?

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#249

Post by 8note » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 1:35 AM UTC

dathinab wrote: post #234

olefoo wrote: post #150

This is all the result of confusing 1st amendment rights with the right to access the audience that gathers at a particular URL. What Taibbi is asking for is that the guy who tells you that drinking rat poison is good for you should be allowed an audience and that even putting a warning alongside the video would be an infringement on his rights. Looking at the comments here I have to conclude that HN is no longer on…

> What Taibbi is asking for is that the guy who tells you that drinking rat poison is good for you should be allowed an audience He should, it's the basis of democracy. Sure rat poison is a bad example, but thinks are much less clear cut if we speak about other things, including covid19. So putting up warnings about this problems (potential more then just a subtle note at the side) is reasonable removing it is much l…

Is Germany post WW2 better or worse the the US South post civil war though?

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#250

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 1:35 AM UTC

xnyan wrote: post #217

chordalkeyboard wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are making normative arguments, not legal arguments. We are aware that this is legal, just like it used to be legal to discriminate in hiring practices against black people. Taibbi is suggesting that if you can't trust the people not to post error and lies, how can you trust the oligarchs and officials? Especially if your access to alternative perspectives is limited. Read for yourself: >> Cutting down the pub…

Should you be forced to publish and host things that you think are terrible lies? If so, why? If not, why should YouTube? Not making a comment on the validity of their claims, just trying to understand what you are saying - a private organization should be legally compelled to spend money to host ideas that they think are harmful? How does that work in practical terms?

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