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Re: Google Stories

#241

Post by TameAntelope »

cambalache wrote: post #239
TameAntelope wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure, a very good question. It's definitely a rabbit-hole that doesn't feel very productive to go down beyond, "here be dragons".

Your argument just boils down to "I think not". Saying Magnus Carlsen doesnt have one of the best minds of this generation because he is "just" a chess player is like saying Erling Haaland is not one of the best athletes because he plays "soccer" not football. If being the indisputable number 1 player for almost a decade and being in the conversation for being the GOAT of one of the oldest, most studied, more competi…

Like I said, I don't think it's productive to argue about this, I just think it's a trap to think of chess performance as any kind of leading indicator of general intellectual aptitude. The skills are simply not transferrable -- the things that make you good at chess don't make you good at thinking generically.

From the man himself:

"I’m not saying that I am totally stupid. But my success mainly has to do with the fact that I had the opportunity to learn more, more quickly. It has become easier to get hold of information. The players from the Soviet Union used to be at a huge advantage; in Moscow they had access to vast archives, with countless games carefully recorded on index cards. Nowadays anyone can buy this data on DVD for 150 euros; one disk holds 4.5 million games. There are also more books than there used to be. And then of course I started working with a computer earlier than Vladimir Kramnik or Viswanathan Anand."

Another quote from that same interview:

"Carlsen: I’m not a genius."

Some sources:

    https://www.chess.com/news/view/-misconceptions-about-chess-players
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/does-chess-make-you-smarter-1479403551
    https://www.acsh.org/news/2017/05/31/do-chess-players-have-higher-iqs-11366
    https://en.chessbase.com/post/magnus-carlsen-on-his-che-career
    https://www.chess.com/blog/RoaringPawn/magnus-carlsen-a-genius-or-automaton
    https://gardinerchess.com.au/fm-stojic-is-magnus-carlsen-a-genius/

Re: Google Stories

#242

Post by cambalache »

TameAntelope wrote: post #241
cambalache wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument just boils down to "I think not". Saying Magnus Carlsen doesnt have one of the best minds of this generation because he is "just" a chess player is like saying Erling Haaland is not one of the best athletes because he plays "soccer" not football. If being the indisputable number 1 player for almost a decade and being in the conversation for being the GOAT of one of the oldest, most studied, more competi…

Like I said, I don't think it's productive to argue about this, I just think it's a trap to think of chess performance as any kind of leading indicator of general intellectual aptitude. The skills are simply not transferrable -- the things that make you good at chess don't make you good at thinking generically. From the man himself: "I’m not saying that I am totally stupid. But my success mainly has to do with the fa…

> Like I said, I don't think it's productive to argue about this

And yet here you are.

Find me a quote of a really accomplished person calling themselves a genius.

Re: Google Stories

#243

Post by ehsankia »

dessant wrote: post #161
ehsankia wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be more focused on the distribution. The screenshot makes it seem like it'll be shown on Chrome's new tab page. So in some sense it is closer to Snapchat stories. It's basically stories in Chrome?

> This seems to be more focused on the distribution. The screenshot makes it seem like it'll be shown on Chrome's new tab page. Yes, the point of AMP is for Google to control content distribution on the web, and they entice you to give up control over your content by offering you exposure, for now, just like they did with the Top Stories carousel in Google Search. The irony of Top Stories is that it forced publishers…

How are you "giving up control"? Having stuffed published in literally any sort of journal, newspaper or anything has certain formatting and layout requirements. Just because you format it in the "stories" layout doesn't mean you're giving up control over your content.

AMP also still properly directs both ads and analytics metrics, and in some cases can be hosted on caches you own, but even if not, having it hosted in a different cache is also not giving up control.

At no point in this process are you losing control of your content. If you don't want to participate, then don't. Creators decide to put their content on TikTok, Youtube, Instagram, Twitter, and now this is yet another avenue they can put their contents on. How is it any different?

Re: Google Stories

#245

Post by XCSme »

ehsankia wrote: post #243
dessant wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This seems to be more focused on the distribution. The screenshot makes it seem like it'll be shown on Chrome's new tab page. Yes, the point of AMP is for Google to control content distribution on the web, and they entice you to give up control over your content by offering you exposure, for now, just like they did with the Top Stories carousel in Google Search. The irony of Top Stories is that it forced publishers…

How are you "giving up control"? Having stuffed published in literally any sort of journal, newspaper or anything has certain formatting and layout requirements. Just because you format it in the "stories" layout doesn't mean you're giving up control over your content. AMP also still properly directs both ads and analytics metrics, and in some cases can be hosted on caches you own, but even if not, having it hosted i…

> AMP also still properly directs both ads and analytics metrics

Only if the ads and analytics are AMP supported and in the list of AMP approved vendors I think, for example: https://amp.dev/documentation/guides-and-tutorials/optimize-...

Re: Google Stories

#246

Post by ehsankia »

XCSme wrote: post #245
ehsankia wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you "giving up control"? Having stuffed published in literally any sort of journal, newspaper or anything has certain formatting and layout requirements. Just because you format it in the "stories" layout doesn't mean you're giving up control over your content. AMP also still properly directs both ads and analytics metrics, and in some cases can be hosted on caches you own, but even if not, having it hosted i…

> AMP also still properly directs both ads and analytics metrics Only if the ads and analytics are AMP supported and in the list of AMP approved vendors I think, for example: https://amp.dev/documentation/guides-and-tutorials/optimize-...

You make it sound like it's a very limited list. I count 225 ad networks under amp-ad [0] and 80 analytics vendors in the very link you sent.

[0] https://amp.dev/documentation/components/amp-ad/

That should cover basically every user, but it's also open source so you can contribute any you think is missing.

Also, how many choices for analytics and ad networks do you have when you put content on Snapchat, Instagram or TikTok? The latter didn't even have an creator program until very recently, so you were literally posting your content for free.

Re: Google Stories

#247

Post by XCSme »

ehsankia wrote: post #246
XCSme wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AMP also still properly directs both ads and analytics metrics Only if the ads and analytics are AMP supported and in the list of AMP approved vendors I think, for example: https://amp.dev/documentation/guides-and-tutorials/optimize-...

You make it sound like it's a very limited list. I count 225 ad networks under amp-ad [0] and 80 analytics vendors in the very link you sent. [0] https://amp.dev/documentation/components/amp-ad/ That should cover basically every user, but it's also open source so you can contribute any you think is missing. Also, how many choices for analytics and ad networks do you have when you put content on Snapchat, Instagram or…

> You make it sound like it's a very limited list... 80 analytics vendors

80 out of thousands of analytics platforms and custom analytics scripts is a very limited list.

> how many choices for analytics and ad networks do you have when you put content on Snapchat, Instagram or TikTok?

But that's the thing with AMP, I still would expect content to be served as it was on my site, it's not like I am creating content for AMP and get an audience on AMP.

Re: Google Stories

#248

Post by ehsankia »

XCSme wrote: post #247
ehsankia wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it sound like it's a very limited list. I count 225 ad networks under amp-ad [0] and 80 analytics vendors in the very link you sent. [0] https://amp.dev/documentation/components/amp-ad/ That should cover basically every user, but it's also open source so you can contribute any you think is missing. Also, how many choices for analytics and ad networks do you have when you put content on Snapchat, Instagram or…

> You make it sound like it's a very limited list... 80 analytics vendors 80 out of thousands of analytics platforms and custom analytics scripts is a very limited list. > how many choices for analytics and ad networks do you have when you put content on Snapchat, Instagram or TikTok? But that's the thing with AMP, I still would expect content to be served as it was on my site, it's not like I am creating content for…

> out of thousands of analytics platforms

Do you have a source on that? Also what % of websites use an analytic provider not included in those 80? I don't have a source either but my personal experience says it'snegligibly small, probably below 0.1%.

> it's not like I am creating content for AMP and get an audience on AMP.

But I think it actually is. Look at this front page screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/HEjjXqm.png

Google is pushing these stories to their users on the discovery feed, so it actually is all about getting an audience from AMP. Yes, it is still being served from your own site, and while there are some limitation, you still have orders of magnitude more control over the content that you would on literally any other platform.

Re: Google Stories

#249

Post by halturing »

sktrdie wrote: post #52
stingraycharles wrote: post #24

Am I the only one who, after reading the landing page, still has no idea what this is? I’ve been watching “immersive” websites for quite some time, mostly marketing-ish websites but also sometimes some special purpose pages from National Geografic or NYT. What exactly is this? A JavaScript/CSS framework? Something like AMP? Or is it a social network like Snapchat? I’m genuinely confused what I’m looking at and feel o…

It’s pretty cool. If you make a url return data that is visually aligned with “a story protocol” google will put it at top of relevant search results. Think of it as a mini-html site that follows a specific set of visual JS and CSS protocols so that consumers have guarantee of its behavior (will not have crazy ads, gifs or third party content) and behaves consistently. Kind of interesting avenue for publishing conten…

It's pretty "cool"?? Is that how Potsie and Ralph Malph feel about it too? Are they on Google's payroll?

Re: Google Stories

#250

Post by ric2b »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #237
scoopertrooper wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yikes, I'm so out of touch. It guess it's the modern equivalent of flipping through pictures in a magazine, but I never really understood the entertainment value in that either.

Fwiw, it's the only way to post something on Youtube/Instagram/Facebook/etc. that: doesn't have a like count, has no comments, it's ephemeral, and anyone who responds to it basically is just sending you a private message than writing something everyone can see. It's much better than posting the content normally and having to feel somewhat like a loser when nobody even likes/comments on it. On Instagram I have like 6…

Everything you listed sounds like something that should be handled by permissions or settings, not a completely different media format.
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