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U.S. Feds Seized Nearly $1B in Bitcoin from Wallet Linked to Silk Road

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Re: U.S. Feds Seized Nearly $1B in Bitcoin from Wallet Linked to Silk Road

#241

Post by CydeWeys »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #194
klodolph wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can fantasize about this James Bond stuff all you like, but one schmuck with a Bitcoin wallet probably is not going to pull it off. Bribing people isn’t so easy and reliable that you can wave a fat stack of cash in someone’s face and expect them to take it. People have lives and their careers tied up in their jobs and know that accepting a bribe isn’t a sure thing. It depends on where you live, sure. But in the U…

Covert bribery is definitely frowned upon. Overt bribery - hiring lobbyists, event sponsorships, regulatory capture, etc - is very popular, I'd even say it's more so than in other countries.

Do you really think that someone with $1B of Bitcoin could buy their way out of the kinds of serious felony criminal charges mentioned in the linked article through campaign contributions and similar? I doubt it.

Re: U.S. Feds Seized Nearly $1B in Bitcoin from Wallet Linked to Silk Road

#242

Post by [deleted] »

flattone wrote: post #211
flattone wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

u just learned that the us is even a trader of bitcoin at all. you say this not referring to a seizure, right?

Ok HN what the f is happening. Why are people minusing a question? like.. can i just know what is even wrong here?

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Feds Seized Nearly $1B in Bitcoin from Wallet Linked to Silk Road

#243

Post by CydeWeys »

driverdan wrote: post #199
GhostVII wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty impossible to beat the $5 wrench attack (or in the case of the government, 5 years in prison) unless you have anonymity, which Bitcoin does a very bad job of.

There is no way they were only facing 5 years. Any sane person would do 5 years for a billion dollars.

It's stolen property. They're never going to be able to keep it even if they do do some prison time. If their claim is that it's truly lost and they no longer have access, and then the funds ever move again on the blockchain, boom, right back to jail under contempt and other charges.

Re: U.S. Feds Seized Nearly $1B in Bitcoin from Wallet Linked to Silk Road

#244

Post by ddingus »

doggosphere wrote: post #228
klodolph wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you surrender assets you don't have control over? If you’ve arranged to share control of the Bitcoin wallet with someone else so they can move coins out of it in order to evade a court order, what’s happened is you’ve now conspired with someone else to evade a court order. Say hello to the RICO act, or something like it. Maybe you’ll be spending some time in prison after your assets are seized, and maybe you…

I am a cyber criminal. One day I get arrested and the court demands I decrypt my wallets. I refuse and get hit with contempt. My wife flees to Russia and moves the coin to another wallet, without my knowledge. Or maybe it was an agreed plan. Who can prove otherwise. Eventually I give up and decrypt the wallets. What are your legal grounds for prosecuting me for this further action? What can you prove? How are you goi…

In that scenario, the coins ended up somewhere other than where the court ordered.

That didn't just happen. Someone intended it to happen.

Investigations and all available means will be used to obtain the coins. That could continue for the remainder of time all involved have here.

Re: U.S. Feds Seized Nearly $1B in Bitcoin from Wallet Linked to Silk Road

#245

Post by sixothree »

GhostVII wrote: post #46
TheHypnotist wrote: post #29

I'm not the most saavy BTC person, but isn't part of the allure of bitcoin the ability to evade this type of seizure?

It's pretty impossible to beat the $5 wrench attack (or in the case of the government, 5 years in prison) unless you have anonymity, which Bitcoin does a very bad job of.

Right. It's nothing half a million dollars worth of jailing costs can't fix.

Re: U.S. Feds Seized Nearly $1B in Bitcoin from Wallet Linked to Silk Road

#246

Post by strgcmc »

CydeWeys wrote: post #241
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Covert bribery is definitely frowned upon. Overt bribery - hiring lobbyists, event sponsorships, regulatory capture, etc - is very popular, I'd even say it's more so than in other countries.

Do you really think that someone with $1B of Bitcoin could buy their way out of the kinds of serious felony criminal charges mentioned in the linked article through campaign contributions and similar? I doubt it.

IMO the short answer is, yes pardons can seemingly be bought in the Trumpian era of American politics. Whether $1B is enough, I don't necessarily know, but I don't see why the likelihood is something to dismiss out of hand.

Re: U.S. Feds Seized Nearly $1B in Bitcoin from Wallet Linked to Silk Road

#247

Post by ddingus »

doggosphere wrote: post #239
ddingus wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I chose that argument because that was most germane to the discussion at hand. You are quite correct in that a conviction requires more than intent. However, intent is what differentiates crimes and it's an important part of any discussion of this kind. You will note successful prosecutions can happen sans explicit proof of acts. There is a solid case against that, but we all know it can, does, will continue to happe…

Right, so going back to our original discussion: How does the prosecution prove my intent to circumvent compliance orders? How do they prove that I moved the coins, or prove that I ordered the moving of the coins? Without evidence, this is quite impossible.

The coins moved.

That doesn't just happen.

There will be more orders. Who had access to the wallet, etc... Wiretaps, observation, all of it is part of the game now.

In short, investigation will continue, as well all available means and methods applied to better understand who moved the coins and why they were moved.

That is likely to be an expensive, potentially freedom limiting, time.

Being unable to prove it NOW doesn't mean forever being unable to prove things.

Good luck with that game. It's very difficult, time consuming, dangerous, and expensive to play. Your opponents are willing to play hard indefinitely.

Best not benefit from the moved coins in the future.

Both implication and deduction are available legal means too. Remember that part.

Re: U.S. Feds Seized Nearly $1B in Bitcoin from Wallet Linked to Silk Road

#248

Post by wil421 »

aazaa wrote: post #69

I find it extremely amusing that the US government has over the last several years become one of the world's largest traders in bitcoin. It's not quite the path many were predicting back in the early 2010s, but Bitcoin has been full of surprises. If history is any guide, the bitcoin will be auctioned off sooner rather than later.

Wait until you learn how many cars, guns, cash, and expensive valuables the feds seize a year. Not to mention businesses, land, and homes.

I just found a multimillion dollar SF condo and land in Liberia, Costa Rica on the US Marshalls website.

Re: U.S. Feds Seized Nearly $1B in Bitcoin from Wallet Linked to Silk Road

#249

Post by jariel »

vmception wrote: post #40
TheHypnotist wrote: post #29

I'm not the most saavy BTC person, but isn't part of the allure of bitcoin the ability to evade this type of seizure?

Yes and it took the US Gov 8 years to come up with a way to do so with mutual cooperation after knowing the identity of the owner and having a way to communicate with that owner. Very different than any random judge or municipal police freezing anything they want. Have a stash that people dont know about, no series of shell corporations and foundations required.

"Have a stash that people dont know about,"

... is probably illegal in almost every known reasonable country because it usually amounts to tax evasion.

So I'm not sure about this meme of "mega millionaires hiding their money is 'bad' if they identify as 'CEOs' but 'maybe good' if they identify as 'hackers'".

Re: U.S. Feds Seized Nearly $1B in Bitcoin from Wallet Linked to Silk Road

#250

Post by klodolph »

doggosphere wrote: post #228
klodolph wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you surrender assets you don't have control over? If you’ve arranged to share control of the Bitcoin wallet with someone else so they can move coins out of it in order to evade a court order, what’s happened is you’ve now conspired with someone else to evade a court order. Say hello to the RICO act, or something like it. Maybe you’ll be spending some time in prison after your assets are seized, and maybe you…

I am a cyber criminal. One day I get arrested and the court demands I decrypt my wallets. I refuse and get hit with contempt. My wife flees to Russia and moves the coin to another wallet, without my knowledge. Or maybe it was an agreed plan. Who can prove otherwise. Eventually I give up and decrypt the wallets. What are your legal grounds for prosecuting me for this further action? What can you prove? How are you goi…

You’re talking about a scenario where your wife is moving to Russia avoid US jurisdiction. You can already do that. You can move to Russia, put your money in a Russian bank, and voilà, it is difficult for the US government to sieze it.
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