My Resignation from the Intercept • Hacker News Board

Re: My Resignation from the Intercept

#241

Post by gfodor » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 6:38 PM UTC

zarkov99 wrote: post #181

gfodor wrote: post #6

The media has fallen into the well-known trap of optimizing the wrong KPI. You want to maximize trust with the public, not engagement, if you want your media company to survive if its value proposition is providing journalism and the usual benefits that come with a free press. Unfortunately, not only is engagement the wrong metric, but it's also one which incentivizes the undermining of the actual metric you need to…

I agree there is a huge opportunity for a trusted institution to do journalism. But who would anyone trust? The incentives in the media point towards pandering and outraging. Left to the shareholders a news organization is mandated to maximize short term profit in whatever way it can. So capitalism is out. Perhaps a benevolent billionaire could support such an effort? But again, who would trust him? Its a pikle.

I think you just need to find a way to align incentives. Capitalism can work just fine. The reason we're in this situation in part is because the skills and resources you garner for delivering journalism happen to overlap with those needed to deliver political tabloids. We don't worry about air conditioner manufacturers magically becoming insurance companies, because its hard to do so. So ultimately if you align incentives enough I think you can make it increasingly unlikely a specific 'truth seeking' organization will slide into tabloids. But I don't know the formula. It might boil down to re-baking the culture which awards good journalism and bootstraps itself off of valid credentialism.

Re: My Resignation from the Intercept

#242

Post by dkural » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 6:39 PM UTC

meowface wrote: post #176

bachmeier wrote: post #20

"as a last-ditch attempt to avoid being censored, I encouraged them to air their disagreements with me by writing their own articles that critique my perspectives and letting readers decide who is right" That's not how this works. If the editor concludes that it's a garbage story dropped a few days before the election in an attempt to influence the election, you don't run it and then "let the readers decide who is ri…

You're assuming it's a garbage story and that it's intended to influence the election based on absolutely nothing. Why not make counter-arguments to the actual piece, when it comes out? I'd argue that all of the rampant censorship about any conceivable questioning or criticism of Biden is the thing that history is likely going to look back on in a few months, and perhaps years, as unethical and irresponsible journali…

You're already buying into the propaganda - there is nothing to "cover-up" per se, there can't be a cover-up, because there is nothing to cover up, there is no story.

Imagine multiple media outlets simultaneously get an email saying "Meowface denies being Dogface during the night". If someone refuses to print this, due lack of evidence and lack of truth - that is not called a cover-up. There is no reason to dignify it with airtime in the first place.

After all one can publish this sort of stuff on blogs, internet forums, tabloids etc. Curation is the true news product - sifting of truth from untruth is one way to do it.

Re: My Resignation from the Intercept

#243

Post by Ancapistani » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 6:39 PM UTC

ivalm wrote: post #86

1980phipsi wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would withhold any opinion that it is a "garbage story" until actually reading it...

It is about emails which have no headers, that are impossible to verify, that were “known to fbi” for a long time but didn’t produce any action (because likely fake), and that are specifically being pushed to change outcome of election despite, again, no real evidence of their veracity.

While I haven't seen Greenwald's piece, there is a lot more to the "Hunter Biden leaks" than some screenshots of emails allegedly recovered from a laptop.

Re: My Resignation from the Intercept

#244

Post by phailhaus » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 6:39 PM UTC

Nacdor wrote: post #212

dkural wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My conclusion is the opposite. The Mueller report was heavily redacted, and misrepresented by AG Barr - precisely because it is so damning. Trump got impeached by congress over the Ukraine scandal later on, again enlisting foreign help. Trump asked a foreign power to help him against a political opponent - the Ukraine facts are not in dispute. Trump's campaign took multiple meetings with Russians bearing emails, and…

> The Mueller report was heavily redacted So your first argument is essentially "There's proof in the report, we just can't see it"? > multiple members of his campaign are now in jail. Don't you think you should mention the fact that they went to jail for reasons that have nothing to do with Russian collusion?

Er, Mueller straight up said "if we could exonerate the President for obstruction of justice, we would. But we can't." So Mueller has admitted that Trump obstructed his investigation, and several members in Trump's circle have gone to jail for _lying to the FBI_.

Not to mention the fact that Mueller's investigation clearly found that Trump's campaign was in contact with Russian agents, knew they favored Trump's campaign, and "welcomed" their help (i.e., foreign interference). This is what the public understands as "collusion". However, "collusion" is not a legal term, "conspiracy" is and has a higher bar of proof. So yes, Trump colluded with Russia, we just couldn't prove that they explicitly conspired since Trump's circle lied for him.

Re: My Resignation from the Intercept

#245

Post by nickthegreek » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 6:39 PM UTC

threatofrain wrote: post #129

Nacdor wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have anything to support this accusation? I've been watching him closely for several years and it seems the mortal sin he committed was his failure to join the Russiagate bandwagon. In the end that was clearly the correct choice, but the liberal media no longer tolerates anyone who has the audacity to undermine their chosen narrative.

Tucker Carlson just announced on Twitter that he has lost critical documents relating to the alleged wrongdoings of Hunter Biden. This was moments before Glenn Greenwald's resignation.

fyi, UPS found the missing mail. So we are waiting with bated breath for Tucker to blow our minds with the critical documents...

Re: My Resignation from the Intercept

#246

Post by hagmonk » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 6:39 PM UTC

In my mind, a media organization censoring a story that could aid Trump just days before the election is acting for the greater social good. I don't feel that optimizing for Greenwald's personal value system at this particular time would be the right tradeoff for America as a whole. Greenwald having the satisfaction of doing the right thing while the rest of us endure the rule of a strong man hell-bent on becoming America's Putin is not a fair trade.

It sucks that we don't live in a society where "The Truth" - if it could only be exposed to sunlight - would stand taller and brighter than everything else around it. If Greenwald wants to cosplay Walter Cronkite, and who wouldn't, he has to understand the impossibility of that in our current context. Everything is turned into spin for the disinformation machine. Everything is distorted, filtered, weaponized, super concentrated, and targeted directly to those it will anger the most. Truth has no power and no legitimacy in this context. Have we not learned anything from watching Trump these past four years?

We have to solve that problem before we can enjoy the benefits of truthful journalism. A problem for which we have to take some responsibility, since our technology is being abused to create this wretched hellscape.

It sucks and it isn't the world in which I want to live. I have young children myself. They will grow up with no Walter Cronkite, no trusted source of information. They will grow up in a world where truth is disconnected from reality. It's broken, and we can't ignore that, no matter how much it hurts us personally.

Re: My Resignation from the Intercept

#247

Post by TxProgrammer » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 6:40 PM UTC

DevKoala wrote: post #5

We are witnessing the biggest concerted censorship effort in the history of the USA. One for the history books, depending on who gets to write it in the future. Regardless of whether or not you believe on Tony Bubolinsky, you should at the very least have the opportunity to hear him and make up your own mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zLfBRgeFFo

No its not..the amount of Trumpers on Hacker News is surprising to me. this Biden scandal is a straight up republican talking point, promoted by Russia and trumpers to try and shift eyes from a collapsing, insane, administration. The lengths of corruption involved in even pursuing this story by trump and Giuliani has already caused Trump to be impeached a short while back.

It's not just 'pot calling kettle black'..both sides are bad logic here. Let assume the biden scandal is true: Complaining about Biden's son getting a lucrative contract because of his last name, is like complaining about the splash from a puddle during a tsunami, ie, It's small potatoes of the worst sort, and the willingness of the right wing to use it as a counter scandal does not bode well for Greenwald's points when he is used a pawn for right wing interests (Tucker Carlson really..)

  A more nuanced consideration of Greenwald's actions and willingness to speak against Biden in context of Trump can be found here: https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/06/19/lesser-of-two-evils-chomsky-vs-greenwald-and-the-ignored-factor/  Greenwald is an Idealist and more power to him, But Is idealism better than a pragmatism in 2020 of all years? We are in the middle of a raging pandemic and society torn apart by ethnic strife. In this case between Trump   a racist, ignorant failed casino owner, and overt con man (trump u) who directly caused the deaths of thousands of people because he ignored basic scientific truths, or Biden, a lukewarm status quo (and somewhat corrupt career politician) the answer is clear for survival: Biden.

Re: My Resignation from the Intercept

#248

Post by lordnacho » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 6:40 PM UTC

rllearneratwork wrote: post #175

bachmeier wrote: post #20

"as a last-ditch attempt to avoid being censored, I encouraged them to air their disagreements with me by writing their own articles that critique my perspectives and letting readers decide who is right" That's not how this works. If the editor concludes that it's a garbage story dropped a few days before the election in an attempt to influence the election, you don't run it and then "let the readers decide who is ri…

his track record is good enough proof for any editor to know that story is NOT a garbage. I guess this is WHY they actually censored it.

You can't just waive it through on the strength of his reputation, you have to check the sources.

Re: My Resignation from the Intercept

#249

Post by phailhaus » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 6:40 PM UTC

amadeuspagel wrote: post #234

dkural wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My conclusion is the opposite. The Mueller report was heavily redacted, and misrepresented by AG Barr - precisely because it is so damning. Trump got impeached by congress over the Ukraine scandal later on, again enlisting foreign help. Trump asked a foreign power to help him against a political opponent - the Ukraine facts are not in dispute. Trump's campaign took multiple meetings with Russians bearing emails, and…

> The Mueller report was heavily redacted, and misrepresented by AG Barr Why would Mueller not say anything to that effect then?

He did: https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/29/robert-mueller-wil...

Re: My Resignation from the Intercept

#250

Post by nickysielicki » Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 6:40 PM UTC

lainga wrote: post #2

Greenwald co-founded it; how did it get out of his control and lead to this situation?

I doubt that it did get out of his control. He probably has the authority to override his editor and publish it under The Intercept regardless of their comments, but he's choosing to respect the editorial process and protect the institution by not crossing that red line.