So, where's the link to the paper showing this? Or, are we just reposting peoples' opinions on Twitter as discussion topics on HN now? If so, plz delete my account, kthanxbye.
Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status
241–250 of 289 posts
Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status
#242The more-correct observation is that any well-understood or easy path to becoming high status will be shut down. Most people are not high status, and want to be. It follows that the path has to be either risky, or difficult to comprehend. If hard work were enough, we'd all be in charge. Lots of hard workers out there.
Leetcode is becoming the status differentiator for software engineers.
No. Coding and being able to FizzBuzz is, for CS grads.
Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe, but that's not been my experience. I've found people tend to value the social standing of that "few thousand" people that make up their immediate society rather than the global collective. If anything, I've noticed a tendency to rail against the massive collective value because of it's juxtaposition to that of the value system closer to home. As a silly example, a giant pickup is a status symbol in cattle coun…
i'd suggest that the subject of status schools (the takeoff point of this discussion) is itself a global appeal to status, rather than an immediate one. most people who place high status on them have no real idea why, just that they have such reputations. the very comparison of 'truck vs tesla' depends on a global, and contentious, notion of status. this bias is especially pervasive in, and because of, the modern con…
>most people who place high status on them have no real idea why, just that they have such reputations.
I think this is a very good point and it reminds me of discussions during my undergrad days.
>the very comparison of 'truck vs tesla' depends on a global, and contentious, notion of status.
This is the opposite point I was making about the status of each being non-global in nature.
As I've moved around the country, I've come to realize the local effects on university status. Some schools, like those Ivy League institutions are almost universally revered. Others seem to have local reverence that doesn't translate well. I've lived in some areas where the local universities have a supremely high status for reasons that aren't valued elsewhere (athletics comes to mind -- some schools are 'great' because they have a good football team while having an almost non-existent basketball program and vice versa. It's a bit strange to me how this can confer status to students who only interact with the programs as spectators. Academics similarly; having an MIT degree confers status even if it was in liberal arts). Outside of that local bubble, people put almost no stock in said school but within that bubble it carries a lot of status if it's on your resume because of local cultural (i.e. societal) bias. And people seem to make choices more biased by their immediate social group. As you allude to, much of it seems to simply be inertia of what the herd mind reinforces. It's high status simply because everyone has agreed it's high status. But I still contend that requires a reasonably large social component biased by the local bubble.
It will be interesting to see in the coming decades if social media dilutes those local effects.
Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm in a relatively high status career, followed that just right path, and more or less planned it all out since middle school. For what its worth, I don't give a crap about status. I think most of my peers don't either, at least relative to the past. I think materialism and arbitrary status seeking is one the decline for the young professional. High end professional fashion and fancy watches are nowhere to be seen i…
> High end professional fashion and fancy watches are nowhere to be seen in my office Do you think the status drive is the same, just replaced with different signals? I've often wondered if a lot of it is almost generationally defined. Boomers grew up in a time where cars were a major status symbol, but there's a high percentage of younger generations that don't even care to own a car. Based on what you stated, I won…
This may be coming hard from my particular beliefs, but I think its a byproduct of diversification efforts bearing fruit. It used to be all white dudes or non-white dudes playing the white dude game. I think the diversity of people in visible traits has encouraged diversity in viewpoints and norms and whatever. It's much easier to play your own game when it's 1v1v1v1v1v1 instead of 4v1. Norms are softer. And that's good.
There's definitely some sort of anti-materialism cultural movement. I don't know how to judge the instagram status game. It's big, and growing, but it's also totally optional. You don't come off as a low status individual if you don't even have an instagram account to the same degree as someone who walks in with a non-professional looking pair of shoes.
If nobody knows what my insta-status is (as a non user), and I don't know what anyone else's is... is it really a good measure of status or is it just kind its own thing? Aside from the top few percent of individuals who are basically professional social media players, I'm not sure insta-fame amounts to much more than being a guild master in a particularly popular MMORPG. Kind of cool but hardly universal.
Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status
#245Folks in the status professions (banking, law,..) often tell me they want to become an entrepreneur. I always tell them, you wont do it. They attended the right school, joined the right firm, attained that corner office. As a founder they would give up all that, and their family and friends will tell them that they've made a massive mistake, for years, while it appears that nothing is happening. Then they sheepishly…
>> Then they sheepishly admit that this is true. So even some of the most successful high statis people are caving in to outside pressure to be something other than what they want. Problem is, the benefits of that (money, status, maybe power) are nice thing to have even if they're not your goal.
this is where the term "golden handcuffs" comes from. You want to do something else but the current situation is too good to risk.
Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status
#246The more-correct observation is that any well-understood or easy path to becoming high status will be shut down. Most people are not high status, and want to be. It follows that the path has to be either risky, or difficult to comprehend. If hard work were enough, we'd all be in charge. Lots of hard workers out there.
What about just pure chance? To be born in to the right family, in the right country, to be in the correct field, to have the right idea at the right time. Perhaps the correct path is just luck. We are all rolling the dice here. Just be yourself and do what you find interesting. If it pays off great, if it doesn't that is okay too.
well the key is opening the door when opportunity knocks. You can certainly be more "lucky" by developing the decision making capability to identify and pounce on an opportunity when it presents itself.
Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
Such as "the right parents", which in many cases is a pretty efficient gate keeper.
The social elevator can take 2 generations. And that is ok. There is a lot of things to learn. It gives hope to one’s dad. Sadly inheritance is looked down upon, and people would like every citizen to be born with the same information, and this information being delivered by public education. Sadly, parents teach much better than teachers when it is about the little things that make a life successful. There will neve…
> I've once asked my Arab employee why only (foreign) Arabs applied to our job (in France) and had the skills, he very acutely noted that their parents don't allow them to fail, whereas French-born developers were more lazy. The result is very visible here: The only decent application we have are from North Africa.
That's a bold statement.
French-born engineers are some of the best I've worked with, definitely not lazy by any means. But the local market in France is truly disconnected, salary-wise, when compared to the rest of the world.
If you advertise French wages on the French market, you simply won't get any of that french-born talent. They are either working remotely or already in the Bay Area!
Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status
#248The more-correct observation is that any well-understood or easy path to becoming high status will be shut down. Most people are not high status, and want to be. It follows that the path has to be either risky, or difficult to comprehend. If hard work were enough, we'd all be in charge. Lots of hard workers out there.
> any well-understood or easy path to becoming high status will be shut down Not shut down so much as exhausted by everyone rushing in. High status isn’t an arbitrary designation that everyone can achieve. By definition, it requires some degree of exceptionalism and significant separation from the average. If everyone could achieve a certain high status attribute, it’s no longer high status. It’s just average. It’s e…
There's some random chance as well - not everyone can win the lottery.
I think that there are some minimum thresholds you have to beat in terms of intellect, drive, charm, talent, etc., but I'm not completely convinced you need a significant "degree of exceptionalism" in any of these things - being in the right place at the right time can often be enough.
Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status
#249I know people blocked by this. Usually they're people who had an easy time at expensive schools, they now can't accept that they're anything other than brilliant and deserve the top jobs based on their raw 'talent' alone. Those who can work their way up from the unglamorous positions at the bottom are the ones doing well, and often leapfrog those with an easier starting position due to it.
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Re: Underrated predictor of success: willingness to be low-status
#250I wished I learned earlier in my life that hard work and success don't come hand-in-hand. There are a lot of hard working people in the world who never get to reap any reward from their labour. At least for me, recognizing that success is nice, but not getting too hung up on it (or expecting it) and to enjoy the labour itself (and find fulfillment in it) helps.
I hear a lot of people lament that the American dream is dead because they worked hard but still don't have the riches the thought they would have. I never understood that, I can dig holes in my backyard all day every day and that would be very hard work but it gets me no where. To me, hard work and success are just correlated in the way ice cream sales and murder rates are correlated.