Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#241

Post by Nextgrid » Fri, Sep 04, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

mmacvicarprett wrote: post #89

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm curious which large partner or top 10 app provider said they'd delist on iOS if not given a stay of execution. The number of companies that could cause this decision is small.

It is more complicated than that. There is a whole industry that depends on tracking IDFA to function, it is not about being creepy, something simple as knowing if your marketing campaign is effective becomes very hard. On one side we have hoarders of data like Facebook and Google, on another side there are legitimate use cases like app publishers measuring marketing performance. SKAdNetwork was poorly designed, it d…

> it is not about being creepy, something simple as knowing if your marketing campaign is effective becomes very hard

But is is creepy, regardless of the reasons behind it, and some people might not be comfortable with that. Collecting that data also creates an ever-growing liability with the risk of the data eventually leaking and falling into malicious hands (including intelligence agencies) even if the original owner of the data wasn't misusing it.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#242

Post by legulere » Fri, Sep 04, 2020, 7:48 PM UTC

newbie578 wrote: post #122

legulere wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you realize how much bullshit people buy that they do not need because of ads? People end up with much less money because of that. And the environment suffers too. And no, without apps people would be able to discover new things. Current ads are not about facts but connecting feelings with products.

This has to be one of the most uninformed comments I have ever read on HN. Are we seriously going to blame ads for people buying stuff they need? I mean come on, this seems like a South Park episode, the Ads are self-aware and made us do it. Current ads are not about facts? Please do tell when was a time ads were not about trying to awake emotions inside prospective customers? Check out The 22 Irrefutable Laws of Mar…

If ads would not make people buy things there would not be so much money in that business.

Ads started using psychology and emotions around 1900.

I would prefer a world without those ads. Here in Germany I even still have to endure ads for tobacco.

Ads would be completely unnecessary where I work, we have solely customers that pay a recurring fee.

The only innovation in advertising is about lying better to people and spy more on them. Ads have wasted so much potential of talented developers and creative people.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#243

Post by goblin89 » Fri, Sep 04, 2020, 10:57 PM UTC

Nextgrid wrote: post #237

goblin89 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That Siri sends recordings to humans for analysis without user consent is a myth. I went through a screen pointing out this is exactly what will happen, and buttons to opt in or out, during initial OS setup. This was a while ago, before iOS 14. The myth is likely perpetuated by people who do not use Apple devices.

That change was mode after the whole thing blew up last year. It used to be that this feature was enabled by default, with no way to opt-out and was not clearly disclosed to the user.

I don’t remember that time, for as long as Siri existed I always recall there being a way to prevent my phone from auto-reacting to words (which I hate) during OS setup. Maybe I am mistaken.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#244

Post by strogonoff » Sat, Sep 05, 2020, 2:20 AM UTC

goblin89 wrote: post #233

graeme wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No apple is actually leaving their IDFA use on by default while turning other app’s idfa to default off.

That's perfect, I don't want my data to go somewhere I don't control and Apple already knows enough that it makes literally no difference but helps support indie developers as I'll be more likely to buy someone's app from a well-targeted add shown in App Store.

Those complaining it’s on by default are forgetting that exposing ad tracking as a setting that can be turned off is already a leap forward compared to shady practices across advertisement industry.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#245

Post by shajznnckfke » Sat, Sep 05, 2020, 3:04 AM UTC

strogonoff wrote: post #244

goblin89 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's perfect, I don't want my data to go somewhere I don't control and Apple already knows enough that it makes literally no difference but helps support indie developers as I'll be more likely to buy someone's app from a well-targeted add shown in App Store.

Those complaining it’s on by default are forgetting that exposing ad tracking as a setting that can be turned off is already a leap forward compared to shady practices across advertisement industry.

It’s a numbers game.

On by default -> financially the same as always on

Off by default -> financially doesn’t exist

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#246

Post by strogonoff » Sat, Sep 05, 2020, 7:15 AM UTC

shajznnckfke wrote: post #245

strogonoff wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those complaining it’s on by default are forgetting that exposing ad tracking as a setting that can be turned off is already a leap forward compared to shady practices across advertisement industry.

It’s a numbers game. On by default -> financially the same as always on Off by default -> financially doesn’t exist

You're forgetting

Not even exposed in the UI -> no one would ever complain about it

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#247

Post by ianlevesque » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 12:24 AM UTC

hu3 wrote: post #192

ianlevesque wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can go turn it off in settings phone-wide already today.

Shouldn't it be off by default?

No, app install ads were quite useful to me as a developer in the past. And judging by the retention rate on the people that installed via those ads, they derived value from them as well.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#248

Post by rosege » Mon, Sep 07, 2020, 1:21 AM UTC

goblin89 wrote: post #232

rosege wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple definitely does shady stuff. Sure on privacy they are the better option, usually. But don't forget it recently came out that Siri was sending recordings to be analysed without the users knowledge. They also will only very begrudgingly fix design faults in their products. I recently was a victim of their flexgate issue and because I have the 15" MacBook Pro it isn't automatically covered. Other users with this i…

That Siri sends recordings to humans for analysis without user consent is a myth. I went through a screen pointing out this is exactly what will happen, and buttons to opt in or out, during initial OS setup. This was a while ago, before iOS 14. The myth is likely perpetuated by people who do not use Apple devices.

I was going off this article: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/14/apple-...

A former contractor who worked for Apple in Ireland told EU regulators that he heard highly personal conversations as part of a project that transcribed portions of Siri recordings to improve the feature’s voice recognition. Apple apologized after the infractions were revealed and said it had suspended the project while it implemented better practices.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#249

Post by goblin89 » Mon, Sep 07, 2020, 2:06 AM UTC

rosege wrote: post #248

goblin89 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That Siri sends recordings to humans for analysis without user consent is a myth. I went through a screen pointing out this is exactly what will happen, and buttons to opt in or out, during initial OS setup. This was a while ago, before iOS 14. The myth is likely perpetuated by people who do not use Apple devices.

I was going off this article: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/14/apple-... A former contractor who worked for Apple in Ireland told EU regulators that he heard highly personal conversations as part of a project that transcribed portions of Siri recordings to improve the feature’s voice recognition. Apple apologized after the infractions were revealed and said it had suspended the project while it i…

I know of that case.

My point is that Apple disclosed to users that this will happen, so I am confused as to who would consider this an “infraction”.

I had to set up iOS multiple times (broke phone screens, got an iPad and so on), and as far as Siri was around I remember being informed.

During initial setup you have options to turn Siri on with continuous listening, on via button only (my preference), or off entirely. One tap and a short bit of text informs you of privacy implications, including that your voice recordings may be sent to and heard by humans in order to improve QoS.

I did not have to dig through a wall of ToS, it was a clear and concise paragraph set in large enough type that took single-digit seconds to read.

I wonder whether (1) I am missing some circumstances or a period of time where this was not the case, and therefore I should be offended as well, or (2) people are misinformed and piling on Apple for, as far as I’m concerned, little to no reason.