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Scrollbar Blindness

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Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#241

Post by bobbob1921 »

MetallicCloud wrote: post #231
Klathmon wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a windows feature like this which I hate with a passion. If you grab a window and shake it side to side, it minimizes all open windows... So sometimes I'll grab a window to move to my left monitor, decide instead I want it on the right one, and suddenly everything is gone and I now need to go open every single window one at a time. It even took me months to understand that the shaking was what caused it. I wo…

I also very much hate this feature, and trigger it often. However if you shake the window you have again, all the minimised windows should be restored.

Agreed (re shake again to reverse), but not always - ie if you let off the mouse click , there is no option to shake again to undo the initial shake. Bottom line , I disableded this “feature”. I do think this is one of the best examples of the issues called out by this article/thread. (Or maybe how google docs has a button covering the scroll bar slider once you scroll to the very bottom of a docs file)

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#243

Post by dehrmann »

reaperducer wrote: post #163
supernova87a wrote: post #18

I have to pile onto the criticism of the hidden scroll bars, and other similar features (like the hidden buttons of PDF viewers now, such as in Chrome). Discoverability is a problem. For anyone (cough, elderly parents) who aren't adept at discovering hidden features, these things can be utterly mind-boggling and frustrating. Even I was stumped for a good minute the first time trying to print/save/download a PDF when…

For anyone (cough, elderly parents) who aren't adept at discovering hidden features You don't even have to be elderly. The 20-somethings in the office (pre-pandemic) had no idea that on an inconsistent smattering of Apple apps, if you pull down, a hidden search bar magically appears. How did that conversation go? Dev: Where do you want the search bar to go? Designer: Put it somewhere that no one will ever see it, or…

I haven't used Snapchat, but I've heard it has a lot of features like that. I wonder if it's a UX trend that's creeping into places it doesn't belong.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#244

Post by Geezus_42 »

MetallicCloud wrote: post #231
Klathmon wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a windows feature like this which I hate with a passion. If you grab a window and shake it side to side, it minimizes all open windows... So sometimes I'll grab a window to move to my left monitor, decide instead I want it on the right one, and suddenly everything is gone and I now need to go open every single window one at a time. It even took me months to understand that the shaking was what caused it. I wo…

I also very much hate this feature, and trigger it often. However if you shake the window you have again, all the minimised windows should be restored.

You can also disable it but if you want to keep snappy windows you have to do it through a regedit since the two features are not independent for some imo stupid reason.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#245

Post by andi999 »

frereubu wrote: post #186
reaperducer wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone (cough, elderly parents) who aren't adept at discovering hidden features You don't even have to be elderly. The 20-somethings in the office (pre-pandemic) had no idea that on an inconsistent smattering of Apple apps, if you pull down, a hidden search bar magically appears. How did that conversation go? Dev: Where do you want the search bar to go? Designer: Put it somewhere that no one will ever see it, or…

I couldn't agree more. I once had a really interesting conversation with an accessibility person who said in passing "accessibility is for everyone ". He didn't make a big point of it, but it really stuck with me, and I'm always reminded of it when I see things like this. I've been working in the digital world since the late 90s, keep everything up to date, have a recent iPhone etc. etc. etc. and I'm stil occasionall…

Got a new android phone (i think it was huawei), couldnt answer calls. I was thinking I as always has to press or slide the green phone icon, but actually had to move the center grey icon on the green phone icon.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#246

Post by shaan7 »

atharris wrote: post #199
hellofunk wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To suggest that “bug wise“ it is the same between Mac and Linux is a bit of a stretch. I work in a team where the developers are mostly split between Mac and Ubuntu. Guess which ones often have problems joining zoom meetings or attaching their machines to a projector for a presentation? There are a lot of things that you generally don’t have to worry about much if you’re using a Mac. I’m not gonna say that one of the…

This is definitely the largest drawback of Linux in general - support for peripherals and common communication/presentation software is really lacking. If I had a dollar for every time I had to muck around to get my headphones to work on Ubuntu, I wouldn't be posting here.

> support for peripherals and common communication/presentation software is really lacking

Well if peripherals vendor and "common communication/presentation software" didn't test on Linux, whose drawback is it now? That being said, I have used the following without any trouble on Linux: Slack, Discord, Teamviewer, Zoom, BBB and BlueJeans. Vendors don't put enough investment into testing for Linux due to comparatively low usage numbers - but that doesn't mean that it is a "drawback" of the OS.

As for hardware, as Vinnl explains above the way to go is buy certified hardware. Ubuntu and Red Hat folks certify a bunch of Dell and Lenovo laptops to work with Linux. I use Ubuntu on a Dell XPS 13 and I don't need to do ANY extra setup. Things just work (TM) - including my Sennheiser and Jabra headphones.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#247

Post by saagarjha »

DonaldPShimoda wrote: post #238
reaperducer wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone (cough, elderly parents) who aren't adept at discovering hidden features You don't even have to be elderly. The 20-somethings in the office (pre-pandemic) had no idea that on an inconsistent smattering of Apple apps, if you pull down, a hidden search bar magically appears. How did that conversation go? Dev: Where do you want the search bar to go? Designer: Put it somewhere that no one will ever see it, or…

Pretty sure the Apple search bars used to be discoverable. When you first opened an app (like Messages), the search bar would be visible by default and you had to scroll down to hide it. Over time, they started hiding it by default and require you to scroll up to access it. I think that, at a general level, this principle of development is reasonable: things that used to require being extremely explicit can become mo…

Back when search bars were table view headers, you had to do non-trivial work to hide them by default (which Apple did anyways, because Apple). With iOS 11 search controllers can integrate directly into the navigation bar, and in that case the search bar will be collapsed by default.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#248

Post by dehrmann »

asciimov wrote: post #214
supernova87a wrote: post #18

I have to pile onto the criticism of the hidden scroll bars, and other similar features (like the hidden buttons of PDF viewers now, such as in Chrome). Discoverability is a problem. For anyone (cough, elderly parents) who aren't adept at discovering hidden features, these things can be utterly mind-boggling and frustrating. Even I was stumped for a good minute the first time trying to print/save/download a PDF when…

> For anyone (cough, elderly parents) who aren't adept at discovering hidden features. I'm in my mid-30's and I find Apple awful at discoverability. Take using Apple Pay. I don't use it often, but covid has had me wanting to. I can't ever seem to remember what sort of hand waving I need to do to get it open. I seem to occasionally bring it up when I don't want to. (It's triple press the home button when the display i…

Good games are pretty good at discoverability like this. I remember playing GTA IV or V and if I hadn't been using some skill, it surfaces tips. Apple has to be slightly more careful because it can't just spam you with "Double-tap to Apple Pay," but recognizing that you just used Apple Pay, but you unlocked you phone and did it from Wallet might mean there's a new skill they can show you.

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#249

Post by Kwantuum »

liability wrote: post #91
bradstewart wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developers (seemingly a lot of them?) use a touchpad as their primary input device on a regular basis? I guess this is an example of being in my own bubble, but I can't stand touchpads. I've used the touchpad on MacBook, like, twice in 2 years.

I would expect devs who use macbooks to generally use them the same way as the general population generally uses them. I can't think of a plausible reason to suspect that developers specifically might prefer traditional mice. One demographic I would expect traditional mouse usage from would be gamers. When I play a first person game I always use my trusty old intellimouse. Otherwise, I use the trackpad unless I'm sim…

> One demographic I would expect traditional mouse usage from would be gamers.

Why would you expect that? What concrete advantage does a mouse have over a trackpad for gaming that doesn't translate to regular use?

Re: Scrollbar Blindness

#250

Post by saagarjha »

sitkack wrote: post #132
ManskY wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has always been a struggle with UX design, people want simplicity but at the same time they want clarity and complexity of ideas. People want great knowledge, but they don't want to read about the nuances that makes it a great knowledge. There are valid reasons for both sides of the equation, it is just difficult to find the balance to satisfied the myriad of different perspectives.

Please don't blame people for wanting when it is "the design" department that forces these changes on people. How about people (designers) start thinking about their users and some some strict adherence to someone else's opinion about Material Design. I hope we see Material Design like we see touch screens in vehicles. An embarrassing mistake at best and potentially fatal at worst. Design should always serve the user…

What's wrong with Material Design? By default, I think it shows scrollbars…
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