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Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

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Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#241

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

devwastaken wrote: post #186
hellisothers wrote: post #140

I find a lot of the comments here split down “I want app regulation because I feel it provides a layer of safety and safety is good for the consumer” vs “I want more freedom and choice because choice is good and is better for the consumer”. Which brings to mind two things This sounds similar to the current brouhaha happening in the US over America’s inclination towards personal freedom at all cost even when govt regu…

There's only two choices, which means the market is monopalized. If apple had been reasonable we wouldn't be having this discussion. Apple has shown it can no longer reasonably regulate its own market and will not be the Shepard. Their significant efforts of verticle integration from hardware to software shows their inclination to creating walled garden markets that compete at the economy of scale and are designed to…

> There's only two choices, which means the market is monopalized.

Literally not what monopolized means.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#242

Post by an_opabinia »

hellisothers wrote: post #140

I find a lot of the comments here split down “I want app regulation because I feel it provides a layer of safety and safety is good for the consumer” vs “I want more freedom and choice because choice is good and is better for the consumer”. Which brings to mind two things This sounds similar to the current brouhaha happening in the US over America’s inclination towards personal freedom at all cost even when govt regu…

Well if you ask a smart person to rationalize their relationship with a drug, their smart phone, they will say something logical and positivist, in a world where your opinion about how a giant corporation screws another doesn't really matter.

So it's not really comparable to partisan politics in the US. You could be right that people are conditioned to talk about things a certain way due to partisanship, but I really doubt that's why there's so many people out their taking Apple's side in a contract spat.

Nonetheless some people have this drug relationship with Fox News. But while very few people on HN may even use Android phones, 100% of congress probably uses an iPhone. They probably use their iPhone ~4 hours a day. 0% use Fortnite (the average congressman probably plays less than 1 minute of Fortnite on average a day).

Nobody's going to come out against their drug.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#243

Post by jcranmer »

pjmlp wrote: post #196
c048 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many stores are allowed on Apple's ecosystem?

Don't like Apple, buy Android, Jolla, Purism, KaiOS, whatever. And in the process get a law book.

> And in the process get a law book.

If you've read the law, you'll note that you are not required to have a monopoly to fall afoul of the antitrust laws. The usual proviso is along the lines of "X is prohibited where the effect of X is to substantially lessen competition or tend to create a monopoly in any line of commerce." (see, e.g., 15 USC §13).

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#244

Post by simonh »

raxxorrax wrote: post #69
dgellow wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if that's the case, a legal and economics competition between those block owners sounds like a positive thing! A more dynamic market is what I want as a developer and consumer.

Heh, I don't see anything dynamic here. You basically choose between two prison cells instead of having an open market where the platform isn't more than a side note. You can just have no block owners at all. Having two competing kings fighting over the throne isn't "dynamic" democracy.

Android phones come with multiple stores, you can side load apps and you could launch your own store any time you like. You could launch a new phone without the Google Play store, such phones exist anyway though.

The plain fact is that isn't what the vast majority of customers want. They have time and again showed that what they want is one place where they can all get their apps, and that will also be on their next phone. Google didn't decide that for them, nor did Samsung which has it's own store on it's phones. It's what customers want and have chosen, whether you like that or not.

Yes Google used unsavoury practices, they ran afoul of the EU and were fined Billions, but that's a footnote. We'd be where we are anyway, and stoping those anticompetitive practices hasn't slowed down the consolidation because this is driven by user preference.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#245

Post by wayneftw »

hirako2000 wrote: post #220
wayneftw wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Why are you giving advice for users in a thread about developers rights? 90% of the youth market uses an iPhone and that's the same market Epic is in. Outside of youths, 50% of the US population uses an iPhone.

Be a developer for another platform then. What makes the platform is both consumers and producers of apps. Vote with your wallet and your merchandise.

No sane app development business would do this when half of their potential customers are on an iPhone.

I'd rather vote in legislators that will maintain the existing laws of the land, which state that you can't use your Apple-sized market power to keep competitors from doing business.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#246

Post by pjmlp »

toyg wrote: post #203
pjmlp wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of developers love Apple ways, since the Mac classic. And it is hardly any different from any other platform. Classical PCs are the exception here due to IBM's failure to secure their golden eggs, had they succeed and PCs would have been just as like. It is no surprise that with the rise of laptop and tablets, the classical desktop PC is an species facing extinction, with pizza boxes for server room being the…

I shiver to think what a IBM success "to secure their golden eggs" in the way Apple does today, would have meant for the world at large. P2P or the browser would have never been invented, you wouldn't have been allowed to install anything without IBM approving... brrr

PCs only turned out different from any other siloed computing platform thanks to IBM not being able to sue Compaq.

As for how it would be like, just like Acorn, Atari, Amiga and Apple were at the time.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#247

Post by Apocryphon »

ericmay wrote: post #135
hhjinks wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sure love having a faceless trillion-dollar company making choices for me to try to keep me and my device safe.

Well, they have a good enough track record so far. If you feel the iPhone is unsafe, you're free to buy a different phone or not use one at all. Why would Apple be less incentivized than another company, like Epic, to protect your data? Apple sells the iPhone and markets it toward pro-privacy and security. Going against that is not in their own best interest. It's in Epic's interest to break through that, because the…

I would rather that the industry adopt higher standards for itself or the government play a regulatory role (or that everyone spontaneously develops a higher level of morality and social responsibility). Putting all of our trust into one corporation, no matter how big its market cap, is just asking for a single point of failure. Not to mention, Apple can always change its attitudes toward security, and then there wouldn’t be anyone left to speak for you.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#248

Post by wcarey »

wayneftw wrote: post #234
wcarey wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What it it's essential to the life of a relatively small group of users? It seems like the rights of smaller groups like that are the ones that most need collectively bargained, as they'll be in a relatively poor position to negotiate with the organization compelling them to use the app?

You created the hypothetical, not me. So you can feel free to answer your own questions because I'm not exactly sure what your point is. This is about giving users and developers a choice outside of Apple's app store. If you like freedom and choices, you should get on the right side of this debate. If some relatively small group of users had a choice, they would always be able to choose Apple's protection.

I’ve been a part of a small group of users not offered that choice (essentially, install remote access on your personal device or terminate you employment), so I appreciate Apple negotiating for me.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#249

Post by pier25 »

pjmlp wrote: post #122
bananaface wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're trying to establish a precedent that would limit all monopolistic behaviour, including theirs. Obviously their motivations are to make it easier for them to compete, but it won't make it easier for them to become a monopoly.

20% global market share isn't a monopoly.

A US judge is not concerned about global market share.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#250

Post by gruez »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #229
wayneftw wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support any gang that wants to give developers and users more freedom of choice. What do you support?

Freedom of choice, like which store to buy their Epic Game Store exclusive games at... oh wait.

The switching cost between launchers on PC is negligible, compared to phones where it's a massive undertaking. That said, in the context of user freedoms I think it's fair to not support Epic (in part, for their actions towards exclusive games) at the same time as supporting Epic (in part, for their actions on mobile platforms).
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