241–250 of 996 posts
For years, people have applauded the walled garden of Apple and this is the end result. Without flamethrower you wil not get out of it. The walls have to go down. They are probably beting on that by this charade the entire industry turns against Apple and a boycott ensues, leaving them no choice to change their margins (and other marketplaces will adjust accordingly or the angry mob comes for them). I doubt Epic stan…
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A one-sided agreement containing a retaliation clause, followed by exercising that clause, is retaliation. Say you're desperate and need water in a crisis, and I offer you some, but only if you sign an agreement which gives you water, but says I can punch you in the face whenever you say something I don't like. Say you say something I don't like, and I punch you in the face. Did I just retaliate? Or did the contract…
I'd imagine there's a spectrum of "retaliation clauses" that includes acceptable things and unacceptable things, and that whatever is happening in the App Store is pretty different than withholding water from someone who would die without it. Epic may be smaller than Apple, but they are by no means a "little guy".
Apple should allow alternative app stores. And they aren't going to do that for as long as they can. So, it's good that some customers are publicly complaining. I don't think they can force Apple to allow alternative payment methods. But, alternative app-store is reasonable.
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Why should Epic get to enjoy a market that Apple built without giving Apple anything or following the rules of the platform? Should anybody be able to post anything they want on HN or YouTube or Facebook etc.? They can't. Does Epic allow anyone to sell content for Fortnite without giving Epic any money? They don't.
Actually developers built the market. Without that Apps on the App store, the iPhone is worth almost nothing.
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Why should Epic get to enjoy a market that Apple built without giving Apple anything or following the rules of the platform? Should anybody be able to post anything they want on HN or YouTube or Facebook etc.? They can't. Does Epic allow anyone to sell content for Fortnite without giving Epic any money? They don't.
Consumers bought the phone which can be be considered a general computing device.. so we should be free to run whatever software we want on it. That's the real argument.
From a preliminary statement of Epic's motion: > Just over two weeks ago, Apple’s CEO Tim Cook was asked during a Congressional hearing whether Apple has “ever retaliated against or disadvantaged a developer who went public about their frustrations with the App Store”. Mr. Cook testified, “We do not retaliate or bully people. It’s strongly against our company culture.”
https://twitter.com/slasher/status/1295434558112960519?s=21 This may have consequences for Unreal Engine too. Without a dev account, how can they maintain it?
Seems pretty straightforward to me. If you sue me, and go out of your way to publically attack me, I'm not willing to do business with you until it's settled, if ever again.
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This clearly and unambiguously crosses the line into abuse of market power. Epic is taking them to court. What did they expect, a nice thank you and a pat on the head.
You don't get to use retaliatory behavior to discourage lawsuits, in this form, especially as a service provider. If they wanted to sue Epic back over frivolous patent violations, they're allowed, but if you're going to engage in retaliatory behavior you can't do it in a way that violates your own ToS.
Epic agreed to, and then broke, those terms and conditions. This results in account termination.
I'm not sure how this is retaliatory behavior. If I had an app and snuck violations into my app to get past review, then had my app removed, then instantly released a PR campaign and filed a lawsuit, I think it would be pretty clear to most people that:
1. I broke the rules and having my account terminated is the obvious result.
2. I didn't break the rules accidentally, but instead broke them very deliberately.
3. I am not interested in discussing this through normal channels, and instead broke the rules to get my app removed as a PR power play so that I would look like the good guy.
That's what happened here. Epic sneaking the IAP workaround into their app shows they broke the rules; Epic filing a lawsuit and launching a PR campaign instantaneously shows that they broke the rules deliberately, knowing the consequences, and are not interested in following the App Store T&C. Doing anything other than closing their developer accounts would be preferential treatment that other developers are unlikely to get in the same situation.
Whether you agree with the rules or not (Epic obviously doesn't), according to the terms and conditions Apple is doing the correct and obvious thing.
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Why should Epic get to enjoy a market that Apple built without giving Apple anything or following the rules of the platform? Should anybody be able to post anything they want on HN or YouTube or Facebook etc.? They can't. Does Epic allow anyone to sell content for Fortnite without giving Epic any money? They don't.
Actually developers built the market. Without that Apps on the App store, the iPhone is worth almost nothing.
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> Epic, btw, has the exact same kind of agreement with Sony, Microsoft, and Google, for access to their gaming platforms. All three of those companies are extracting the same 30% fee that Apple is. You don't have to agree to Epic's terms to access the platforms from Sony, MS and Google. You do, however, have to agree to Apple's terms to access their Platform.
Nitpicking, and I'm not even sure that's correct. Regardless, it's not relevant. What Epic is griping about here is the 30% fee, but they're not acting or speaking in good faith about that. They're pretending that fee is somehow onerous, but they pay that exact same fee to every other platform, too.
https://variety.com/2019/gaming/news/tim-sweeney-epic-games-...
And I'm sure they're not happy about the fees on other platforms, but they can't fight everyone at once.