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Google: Open Letter to Australians

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Re: Google: Open Letter to Australians

#241

Post by lopis »

sjy wrote: post #229
wombatmobile wrote: post #207

Obviously the Australian government is trying to make google pay just because Murdoch told it to. But the pretense is bizarre - that google has to pay Murdoch because it steals his content. Google doesn't republish News Corp content! It just lists headlines with URLs that readers click to go through to News Corp! Google is giving News Corp 70% of its traffic. Bizarre. What's to stop google from simply ceasing to inde…

Not indexing news content in order to avoid submitting to the proposed new law is itself prohibited under the new law.

So Google will either pay up, or exit Australia long enough until the law gets overturned - whichever is cheaper. For massive companies like Google, presenting them with silly fines and taxes is like a truck finding a little speed bump.

Re: Google: Open Letter to Australians

#242

Post by sjy »

cyphar wrote: post #118
zmmmmm wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This sounds great to me Keep in mind, this is not motivated by your interests and has nothing in it that is there to help them. It's based on an a priori assumption that old media is good for consumers interests and all of the benefits it provides are directed to a newly invented category of "registered news businesses" which will have special rules. So no, you're not going to find out changes to algorithmic rankin…

Look, I'm not going to deny that this is obviously motivated by News Corp and Fairfax lobbyists. However, the ACCC is legitimately one of the really brilliant government agencies here in Australia -- our consumer protection laws are actually designed around protecting consumers interests and I would argue is firmly on the list of positives when taking stock of the pros and cons of living here.

It’s worth noting that, while the ACCC did recommend “requiring designated digital platforms to each provide the Australian Communications and Media Authority with codes to address the imbalance in the bargaining relationship between these platforms and news media businesses and recognise the need for value sharing and monetisation of content” [1], the “mandatory bargaining code” policy resulted from a more recent and specific direction from the government [2].

[1] https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/holistic-dynamic-refor...

[2] https://ministers.treasury.gov.au/ministers/josh-frydenberg-...

Re: Google: Open Letter to Australians

#243

Post by nl »

cyphar wrote: post #118
zmmmmm wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This sounds great to me Keep in mind, this is not motivated by your interests and has nothing in it that is there to help them. It's based on an a priori assumption that old media is good for consumers interests and all of the benefits it provides are directed to a newly invented category of "registered news businesses" which will have special rules. So no, you're not going to find out changes to algorithmic rankin…

Look, I'm not going to deny that this is obviously motivated by News Corp and Fairfax lobbyists. However, the ACCC is legitimately one of the really brilliant government agencies here in Australia -- our consumer protection laws are actually designed around protecting consumers interests and I would argue is firmly on the list of positives when taking stock of the pros and cons of living here.

The ACCC is great. (I'm Australian, and think it's a awesome example of a regulator with real teeth)

But this makes no sense! Why should Google be forced to pay News Corp to display its headlines, when other smaller companies have to pay for ads for to get the same exposure?

Re: Google: Open Letter to Australians

#244

Post by nl »

alecthomas wrote: post #154
throwaway45349 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK you're missing a crucial point - they're trying to require G/FB to pay out billions to old (read: dying) media publications, which will crush small publications. On the Open Web, ABC News should get the exact same treatment at JoeBloggsYT2020.

> On the Open Web, ABC News should get the exact same treatment at JoeBloggsYT2020. I legitimately don't understand this point of view. Original reporting of the kind that keeps politicians and corporations in line costs money; investigative journalists aren't cheap. What YouTuber gives you this kind of depth? Will the world be a better place without the Fourth Estate?

Sure, this is a legitimate argument.

But then why wouldn't the money go to fund the AP Press Pool in Canberra which shutdown recently because of lack of funding[1], or to the ABC or SBS or other public journalism?

Instead it goes directly to the big publishers who cut journalists while increasing the salary of people like Andrew Bolt (who is so far removed from a journalist it is objectionable).

[1] https://apnews.com/c9d2809aaa0e8fa47c629723444d7b51

Re: Google: Open Letter to Australians

#245

Post by nl »

dongvsascript wrote: post #177
chottocharaii wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look up transfer pricing

it's the method i used to move capital in my small american business when i opened an office in russia. a company in another country is a separate legal entity. you charge market rates, as you would any other company. it has zero to do with my post. the complaint is profit is taxed instead of revenue. the complaint is not valid.

Do you really believe Google makes no profit in Australia?

I understand for accounting purposes they don't. But they make a lot of money with very little expenses...

Re: Google: Open Letter to Australians

#246

Post by Jabbles »

DoctorNick wrote: post #98
gitgud wrote: post #91

I initially thought this was going to be about the new [1] anti-encryption law's in Australia... another concerning matter of government intervention... [1] https://fee.org/articles/australia-s-unprecedented-encryptio...

nope, Google doesn't give a shit about that. They just hate having to pay for displaying content from news media.

Well they did say this:

https://www.reformgovernmentsurveillance.com/rgs-statement-o...

Not sure what happened after that...

Re: Google: Open Letter to Australians

#247

Post by sjy »

searchableguy wrote: post #12
throwaway45349 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK you're missing a crucial point - they're trying to require G/FB to pay out billions to old (read: dying) media publications, which will crush small publications. On the Open Web, ABC News should get the exact same treatment at JoeBloggsYT2020.

That's my main problem with it. Extend those minimum standards for everyone regardless of revenue and other selective filters. Can someone explain what this means? > providing information about how and when Google and Facebook make available user data collected through users’ interactions with news content. Is it saying google or facebook need to tell news publication about when/which users are accessing thier conten…

It is explained in the ACCC concepts paper [1] under the heading “Sharing of user data.” The idea is that both news organisations and digital platforms make money from targeted advertising, but digital platforms have access to more data, and thus an advantage at the negotiating table.

[1] https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/ACCC%20-%20Mandatory%20...

Re: Google: Open Letter to Australians

#248

Post by senectus1 »

dannyw wrote: post #127

Australian here. Fuck News Corp, one of the most corrupt entities in Australia that directly collude and interfere with our elections for the benefit of themselves and Big Coal. I hope Google don’t fuck around.

lol Australian here as well: Thats like saying "Go Darth Vader! I can forgive the fact you slaughtered hundreds of Jedi and children, because you're way more redeemable than the emperor..."

Both orgs are to a degree, evil. why do we have to settle on which evil we support?

Re: Google: Open Letter to Australians

#249

Post by sthnblllII »

ssss11 wrote: post #187
taneq wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think ssss11's point was, if no matter who you vote for they do the same dastardly things, and the political system is set up to lock out newcomers not allied with either major party, then there's no way within the system to stop something by voting.

Yeah thats right, I think in Australia your vote basically means nothing.

You are certainly correct if you vote for the center-left or center-right parties. But that is true in all western states.

Are you familiar with French politics? For all the crap Americans give them about surrendering in the world wars, the french have had the courage to sideline both their center right and center left parties and now the biggest parties are nationalist and socialist.

Re: Google: Open Letter to Australians

#250

Post by cirno »

LatteLazy wrote: post #231
sjy wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not indexing news content in order to avoid submitting to the proposed new law is itself prohibited under the new law.

Conspiracy theory time: that's what this is really about. Murdoch (Fox etc) know that they are next after Facebook gets done banning qanon nonsense. If Google audited the accuracy of Murdoch owned sources, it would have good reason to start delisting them. Murdoch knows he can't afford that. So this isn't about getting 1p per 1000 views or something. It's about being assured a high search result placement for his dis…

Google delisting high-clickbait sources because their claims are blatantly false is something that would never happen.
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