Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

psymposia.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 393 posts

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#241

Post by craftinator »

perl4ever wrote: post #194
site-packages1 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an unacceptable risk for people who didn’t consent, but that’s a different matter. We should punish people who give others dangerous things without consent.

Well, you can get into trouble if you start playing around with radioactive material, too. I think "The Radioactive Boy Scout" has been mentioned on HN a few times. I think a reason why dangerous things are regulated is because even though they don't always lead to harm, the harm can be grave and impossible to undo. Even if an unexpected trip doesn't technically lead to permanent brain damage, if the behavior were mi…

Ah the whataboutism is strong here. The point is, life is inherently dangerous. We make laws to punish people for making it more dangerous. People have had massive overdoses of LSD [see Wikipedia entry for LSD], several thousand times the standard party dose, and gone on to lead normal lives. All the arguments you make are exactly the same as arguments against alcohol, but LSD is actually much safer.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#242

Post by ModernMech »

platistocrates wrote: post #238
marcrosoft wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be no victimless crimes! This man made a product that others willingly wanted for themselves. There are no victims here. This can be applied to seatbelts, helmet laws, etc.

There is no such thing as a victimless crime.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_Stat...

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#243

Post by yaktubi »

quickthrowman wrote: post #198
yaktubi wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I’d agree with “harms noone.” I have taken LSD and easily walk in the middle of the road with no cause for concern. Imagine a child accidentally eating some of it, etc. Could be worse than a loaded gun. I’m all for legalizing natural stuff (mushrooms, cannabis, even coca plants) but once chemists start concentrating things or turning them into droplets it becomes extremely dangerous. For instance, mushrooms…

My rebuttal is “alcohol”. That settles any safety related debate, let’s move on. I’m dismissing “think of the children” and “equivalent to a tool designed to kill” (and that tool is completely legal in the US) lines as obvious trolls, I encourage anyone else rebutting to ignore that as well. Edit: To dismiss your argument that you edited in about dosage size and accidental ingestion. If LSD was legal, manufacturers w…

I agree with all of what you’re saying, but the comment I reply to says it “harms noone.” I am saying it does harm people.

To be frank, I have taken a decent amount of LSD in teenage years and suffer permanent effects from it (all mental stuff like anxiety and paranoia). Granted some of it was probably made in someone’s garage (legal stuff could have some sort of standards). But still, LSD is dangerous and point being it has potential to make people do things without cause for concern, and cause damage to others. It also lasts easily 8-24 hours depending on dosage.

Another point: if LSD was legal, then it would be legal for a cult to use it in rituals and as a way to manipulate individuals. Think Charles Manson—that’s a lot more dangerous than run-of-the-mill narcotics.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#244

Post by mistermann »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #217
solaceb wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, yes, because there is nothing holding the country together besides the perception that the US constitution protects & ensures our freedom. If that perception falls, then there could substantially greater political unrest, even moreso than what we have experienced this summer And LSD and other psychedelics definitely make you rethink the validity of government, period. Let alone the efficacy of the powers that be…

> IMO, yes, because there is nothing holding the country together besides the perception that the US constitution protects & ensures our freedom. What holds the country together is a lot of people have a lot to lose. > And LSD and other psychedelics definitely make you rethink the validity of government, period. Let alone the efficacy of the powers that be to ensure safety and prosperity But this is just the crux of…

>> IMO, yes, because there is nothing holding the country together besides the perception that the US constitution protects & ensures our freedom.

> What holds the country together is a lot of people have a lot to lose.

There are many things that "hold a country together" - some of them are known (here we have two examples), and others are unknown.

> it is an illusory experience that has some impact on the user. It isn't any arbiter of truth or knowledge.

It is surely illusory to a very large degree, but "what it is", really, is far beyond mankind's ability to judge such things.

I really like how Jordan Peterson describes what psychedelics "are":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaY0H9DBokA

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#245

Post by 1986 »

DenisM wrote: post #205
dspearson wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Crack" and cocaine are literally the same drug.

How come we hear about dangerous meth-heads and crack-heads, but not about coke-heads?

Meth and crack are both cheaper than coke, which results in class/socioeconomic effects in who uses them as well as how they're portrayed in media and handled by government.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#246

Post by grayhatter »

theptip wrote: post #178
grayhatter wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you have your logic backwards. The conclusion that with lax drug laws, there'd be less violence associated with drug manufacturing and selling is correct. But the laws don't cause the violence, they make it so violent individuals are the only one's willing to fill the supply. If I outlaw [drug], I'm not responsible because you kill someone trying to sell [drug].

I disagree. If you take [action], and it was a necessary and sufficient condition for [consequence], then you are morally responsible for that consequence. (Sure, the individuals committing crimes in this concrete case are also morally respoinsible). In this case, I think it is correct to say that the laws cause violence, since that violence would not be happening otherwise. There is a common trope that criminals sit…

> I disagree. If you take [action], and it was a necessary and sufficient condition for [consequence],

That's exactly the thing though isn't it. Marijuana is (was) illegal, and has VERY LITTLE amount of violent crime related with its market. Making something illegal isn't enough to induce violence alone. So the [action] of (making drugs illegal) itself alone isn't enough to make [consequence] of (additional violence) to be a certainty.

Or, consider the simple case. I insult you, you punch me. You clearly wouldn't have punched me if I didn't insult you. Who's at fault here?

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#247

Post by sandworm101 »

marcrosoft wrote: post #211
baron816 wrote: post #191

Government policy: prevent people from ruining their lives with drugs by ruining it for them with prison.

There should be no victimless crimes! This man made a product that others willingly wanted for themselves. There are no victims here. This can be applied to seatbelts, helmet laws, etc.

>> This man made a product that others willingly wanted for themselves. There are no victims here

People may think LSD or cocaine is all well and good, but there are far more dangerous substances out there. Things like Carfentanil need to be regulated. So too all the so-called "date rape" drugs. Just because some guy wants a powerful, tasteless, anesthetic that can be readily dissolved in water doesn't mean we should let him have it. Even if it has personal uses, the danger of such substances means they need controls.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#248

Post by acid__ »

dEnigma wrote: post #218
marcrosoft wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be no victimless crimes! This man made a product that others willingly wanted for themselves. There are no victims here. This can be applied to seatbelts, helmet laws, etc.

I don't know. It could be traumatizing to kill someone in a rather unspectacular car crash just because they weren't using their seatbelt. Same for helmets.

There's also the externality of increased load on emergency services and hospitals.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#249

Post by MiroF »

perl4ever wrote: post #194
site-packages1 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an unacceptable risk for people who didn’t consent, but that’s a different matter. We should punish people who give others dangerous things without consent.

Well, you can get into trouble if you start playing around with radioactive material, too. I think "The Radioactive Boy Scout" has been mentioned on HN a few times. I think a reason why dangerous things are regulated is because even though they don't always lead to harm, the harm can be grave and impossible to undo. Even if an unexpected trip doesn't technically lead to permanent brain damage, if the behavior were mi…

Better to combat by certainly permanently wrecking someone's life with 20 years in prison.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#250

Post by MiroF »

cheschire wrote: post #159
HenryKissinger wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the organized crime groups that sell these drugs do harm people, by way of murders, human trafficking, violent crimes and property crimes. Funding criminals and terrorists is surely worthy of punishment, do you not agree? But I agree that twenty years is excessive. A week of prison or two would be enough.

Ugh. Your post is a perfect example of a valid argument, and yet a bunch of people downvote you instead of just having a conversation. Two sheets is at least a few hundred tabs and that is definitely within the realm of possession with intent to sell, legally speaking. And your conclusion wasn't even harsh like "they earned 20" or anything. You clearly said the punishment was harsh for the crime. Jeez people, learn t…

Yes, those violent LSD trafficking organizations.

The rhetoric is like straight out of the '80s and is not a "valid argument."

Post reply on HN