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U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#241

Post by jordanpg »

rndmize wrote: post #209
war1025 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because of the massive failure that congress is This is a conclusion I'm coming to more and more. It's easy to blame Presidential overreach or Supreme Court overreach, but the Congress seems to be steadily abdicating responsibility while still managing to get very little of substance accomplished. They are supposed to be the most powerful branch of government, but instead they have deadlocked themselves into useles…

I'm tempted to say that the uselessness of Congress is in indication of something else - we've pushed too much to the federal level. The decades-long tooth-and-nail fighting over healthcare makes me think that an effective system just can't be done federally; there's too much disagreement between states. Why not scrap most of the social programs, cut federal taxes, and let states implement their own?

Or alternatively, that the federal government, as it currently operates, is simply no longer up to the task of modern governance.

Too slow, too reliant on voluntary compliance, and most importantly, too difficult to make decisions with long term time horizons.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#242

Post by detaro »

belltaco wrote: post #229
elbigbad wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily the case. There are lit fees of course, and filing fees, discovery, etc. But once you get to the SCOTUS stage, assuming you're not retaining Gibson Dunn or Covington or someone's supreme court practice, there are many clinics with some star power that will do the case for free. Many top law schools have Supreme Court clinic and we sought out cases that we could bring to SCOTUS. We would have died to h…

What does clinic mean in this context? Thanks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_clinic

programs that take cases for free, typically while using them as training material.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#243

Post by giantg2 »

vkou wrote: post #84
giantg2 wrote: post #73

So when are they going to get to all the other unlawful stuff the government does?

When you file a lawsuit about it that makes its way up the courts.

Even if I had standing, it would never make it up courts because the oligarchy (judges) decide whether it is worthy or not. Just look at all the split decisions that SCOTUS leaves in place by declining to hear. Logically one of those two plaintiffs is being screwed.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#244

Post by airstrike »

hinkley wrote: post #195
war1025 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because of the massive failure that congress is This is a conclusion I'm coming to more and more. It's easy to blame Presidential overreach or Supreme Court overreach, but the Congress seems to be steadily abdicating responsibility while still managing to get very little of substance accomplished. They are supposed to be the most powerful branch of government, but instead they have deadlocked themselves into useles…

Abdicating some responsibilities and becoming positively petty on the ones they've decided to focus on. It's like the old joke about Academia: the political infighting is so intense because the stakes are so low.

Or as Mark Manson put it, people give so many fucks about petty things because they have nothing more important to give a fuck about.

https://www.amazon.com/Subtle-Art-Not-Giving-Counterintuitiv...

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#245

Post by dodobirdlord »

IncRnd wrote: post #143
nemothekid wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone explain why America has reservations? As I understand it, it's not "special" status and more a result of the laws that were put into place when the land was "obtained" from Native Americans. Renegading on those treaties would be no different than the government repossessing your generations-owned land because "you shouldn't get special treatment because your great grandfather bought this land for $3".

A reservation is not just land. A reservation is Tribal Land of a sovereign nation. This is touched upon in the article.

It's complicated. Tribes, much like (capital S) States, are semi-sovereign, sovereign in some things but not in others. Much like States, reservations are still part of the United States.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#246

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

_bxg1 wrote: post #3
threatofrain wrote: post #2

> The ruling means that for the first time much of eastern Oklahoma is legally considered reservation land. More than 1.8 million people live in the land at issue, including roughly 400,000 in Tulsa, Oklahoma’s second-largest city. McGirt v Oklahoma (9 July 2020) pdf: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/18-9526_9okb.pdf

Very interesting. Is this the first time a major city has fallen within a reservation?

Don't know if you'd qualify it as a "major" city, but over 10% of Palm Springs CA is on an Indian reservation. For interesting historical reasons, though, the reservation is basically shaped like a checkerboard, where every other 640-acre square is reservation land. This obviously has huge implications on real estate - none of the reservation land is sold, just leased, and there were some recent cases where the tribe made the tenants leave after their (like 50 year or so) lease was up.

Google "palm springs indian reservation map" and it will show you the checkerboard.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#247

Post by iheartblocks »

hvs wrote: post #197
war1025 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because of the massive failure that congress is This is a conclusion I'm coming to more and more. It's easy to blame Presidential overreach or Supreme Court overreach, but the Congress seems to be steadily abdicating responsibility while still managing to get very little of substance accomplished. They are supposed to be the most powerful branch of government, but instead they have deadlocked themselves into useles…

Unfortunately, that precisely the opinion that the Romans came to as well.

Can you expand on this?

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#248

Post by throwawaysea »

thekingofh wrote: post #25

I had the pleasure of driving through and visiting Oklahoma a decade or so ago. Some people don't like the rural states, but it felt so serene out there. We stopped at a shaved ice place off of some random exit and just sat there on the hood staring out at the plains. There's not much out there but it felt so peaceful. It felt like home.

This has been my experience as well. I live in a city now, but I love the times I have spent traveling through or to rural areas. They have a bad reputation that is based on false notions of urban superiority and stereotypes that feel as baseless and unhinged as claims of other types of superiority (e.g. racial).

The reality is when you visit these rural places, talk to the people there, take part in their culture, take in the land...there is a lot these areas and those lifestyles have to offer. I was also surprised to find the people so charming, warm, and welcoming - and it dispelled my fears of expecting discrimination, which in retrospect I've only experienced in bigger American cities. It does feel comforting, raw, grounded, and yes like home.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#249

Post by ColanR »

war1025 wrote: post #156
calvinmorrison wrote: post #128

"We reject that thinking. If Congress wishes to withdraw its promises, it must say so." As with so many controversial court rulings like the ACA mandate case, our courts keep getting put into the decision because of the massive failure that congress is. Congress should either fulfill the promise or not, or whatever. instead the judicial bodies end up making legal judgements with big ramifcations that largely should b…

> because of the massive failure that congress is This is a conclusion I'm coming to more and more. It's easy to blame Presidential overreach or Supreme Court overreach, but the Congress seems to be steadily abdicating responsibility while still managing to get very little of substance accomplished. They are supposed to be the most powerful branch of government, but instead they have deadlocked themselves into useles…

> They are supposed to be the most powerful branch of government, but instead they have deadlocked themselves into uselessness.

They were always intended to be both. Since there had to be such a powerful entity within the government (the power exists, so it has to be put somewhere), the best course of action to prevent any whim of politics doing irreparable damage is to pit congress against itself so that any actions it takes are generally too slow for transient whims to affect it.

Better that the powerful are inefficient.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#250

Post by Sharlin »

krapp wrote: post #215
war1025 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because of the massive failure that congress is This is a conclusion I'm coming to more and more. It's easy to blame Presidential overreach or Supreme Court overreach, but the Congress seems to be steadily abdicating responsibility while still managing to get very little of substance accomplished. They are supposed to be the most powerful branch of government, but instead they have deadlocked themselves into useles…

>They are supposed to be the most powerful branch of government, but instead they have deadlocked themselves into uselessness. That's what many Americans wanted, and voted for. A government that governs least governs best, after all.

I… find it rather difficult to believe that a sufficient number of Americans coordinated and voted strategically over decades in order to intentionally bring to existence the current two-party deadlock situation.
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