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Hong Kong: books by pro-democracy activists disappear from library shelves

theguardian.com

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Re: Hong Kong: books by pro-democracy activists disappear from library shelves

#241

Post by briefcomment »

untog wrote: post #238
briefcomment wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure BLM support is "mainstream". Home Depot hasn't said anything official about BLM to my knowledge, and you hear loud pro BLM people saying they should be boycotted [1], but I think they're doing fine. Their stock price is as good as its ever been. I think what we're seeing is a case of "minority rule" [2]. [1] https://www.ccn.com/7-companies-you-should-renounce-if-you-s... [2] https://nassimtaleb.org/2016/…

> More than half of voters, 57 percent, have a favorable opinion of the Black Lives Matter movement, while 30 percent have an unfavorable one. https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=3663 So it's not much of a minority anything.

I think my point is more that people who actually change their behavior based on whether or not a company explicitly supports BLM is not a majority. It is probably a small minority. If that 57% actually boycotted businesses not supporting BLM, Home Depot would change their tune quickly.

Re: Hong Kong: books by pro-democracy activists disappear from library shelves

#242

Post by hajile »

cvlasdkv wrote: post #239
hajile wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Millions rounded up into concentration camps and butchered alive for organs would no doubt have a very different view of their plight than you do in this defense of Chinese nationalism and authoritarianism.

Citations very much needed for the absurd _millions_ of people in concentration camps being butchered alive for organs? I've done a lot of research into this topic and sans one far-right kook who extrapolated millions out of interviewing eight people, nobody suggests anything more than thousands of people in "re-education camps". Nothing about organ harvesting in said camps. I'd urge you to investigate more yourself-…

If you did more than 5 minutes of Googling, you would have all the evidence you need. I dislike Chinese Shills, but I'll provide some links here.

There were millions of falun gong practitioners (focus on the "were" there). China started an organ program. You can't just take organs after a person dies. Only brain-dead people are viable candidates.

China can get an organ in a week or so (their record is 4 hours). The reason transplant lists are so long here is because you have to not only wait for someone to die in the approved way so their organs are usable, but they must also match. The intersection of these two things is very small. Such fast matching and delivery can only mean they have people pre-screened and waiting to die.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilgour%E2%80%93Matas_report

https://www.chinaorganharvest.org/

https://endtransplantabuse.org/an-update/

As to concentration camps, the camps are admitted by the Chinese government itself (claiming that everyone is there "voluntarily"). The locations of many have been pinned down. Furthermore, satellite imagery shows the break-neck speed at which new buildings are being erected and can be used for a quite accurate count of victims (especially when cross-sectioned with testimonials).

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-01/satellite-images-expo...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-50511063

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/a-sp...

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/02/asia/xinjiang-china-...

Re: Hong Kong: books by pro-democracy activists disappear from library shelves

#243

Post by njrc9 »

cvlasdkv wrote: post #240
njrc9 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for linking the article. I had never heard of the US Agency for Global Media before. I have not read that much about it yet but it sounds in line with some of the criticisms Chomsky levels at U.S. propaganda. I would be very interested in any other sources of information you might recommend on this topic or hearing more of your own thoughts (my email is in my profile).

I'd recommend reading: https://liberationschool.org/tiananmen-the-massacre-that-was... as well as the WikiLeaks documents and draw your own conclusions. CBS, NYT, and many other American sources all also do not report this "massacre" yet I recall it being in my textbooks and it being "common knowledge". It's become impossible for me to trust the US on anything domestic much less China. I'd hoped for much better from…

Thank you very much for the suggested readings. Recommendations like yours are very appreciated since I find it difficult to find such content via the usual means of discovery on the internet. I read through the first article. That and similar critical writings certainly make one doubt much of what one has learned and hears...

Re: Hong Kong: books by pro-democracy activists disappear from library shelves

#244

Post by dgellow »

the8472 wrote: post #164
dgellow wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Western societies believe freedom of speech is the root of all that is good in the world. That’s not the case for all western societies. Talking for the ones I’m the most familiar with, neither Germany, nor France, nor Switzerland is based on freedom of speech as the root of what is good and they have a good amount of legal and social rules regulating speech. As far as I’m aware only the US, and maybe British class…

The free exchange of ideas is still held as enlightenment value. Having some limited exceptions to the rule does not negate that. The US has them too, see hate speech or the thing about shouting fire in a theater. Freedom of thought and expression are articles in the charter of fundamental rights. Arguably the tradeoffs made when different fundamental rights conflict are different, but they're still held as fundament…

My point is that you're talking about US specific concepts. But your initial comment was about "western societies" as if they are one bloc. I can tell that a bunch of so called western countries aren't that concerned protecting free exchange of ideas as soon as you start to make people feel uncomfortable. Freedom of speech is mostly a US obsession (not saying that's bad, I personally would like more of it in Europe), here we have whatever we consider to be reasonable and decent speech as a criteria for what is acceptable.

Re: Hong Kong: books by pro-democracy activists disappear from library shelves

#245

Post by drummer »

jbay808 wrote: post #103
baylearn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I took a screen snapshot of the front page: https://imgur.com/gallery/thY5Tl6 Compared to #1 and #2 ranked posts, which have half the upvotes, but uploaded within the same hour or two, this post is ranked #19. Maybe many people are "flag"-ing the post so the HN ranking algorithm pushes it lower. (Edit: For the record, I don't believe the HN mods are doing any downmodding here, and it's probably just due…

I've been surprised by the absence of discourse about HK on HN over the past week, given the magnitude of what's going on there and its relevance to this forum's interests. Meanwhile, relatively trivial articles are holding the front page for days.

I noticed this too. I had to search for 'hong kong' to find this specific post and many others. The hn voting and flagging system is being abused once again it seems.

Re: Hong Kong: books by pro-democracy activists disappear from library shelves

#246

Post by NicoJuicy »

andrekandre wrote: post #122
NicoJuicy wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, democracy is the only good ( but slow ) way. Fox News had a successful advantage in the start, but their cookie of right speech is not crumbling.. It's collapsing

> It's collapsing any evidence of that?

Evidence, not exactly. It's more like society standing up against it.

Instead of government censorships, platforms are taking matters into their own hands.

While there was a lot of protest to "not act against Trump".

There seems to be no protest of acting against Trump. So, objectively, it would mean a big majority is anti-Trump.

And the voters that remain are probably used to switching platforms because of hate-speech. That's why it probably goes unnoticed and they don't focus on it too much.

Just a sentiment though. But I see no evidence/logic against it

Re: Hong Kong: books by pro-democracy activists disappear from library shelves

#247

Post by andrekandre »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #246
andrekandre wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's collapsing any evidence of that?

Evidence, not exactly. It's more like society standing up against it. Instead of government censorships, platforms are taking matters into their own hands. While there was a lot of protest to "not act against Trump". There seems to be no protest of acting against Trump. So, objectively, it would mean a big majority is anti-Trump. And the voters that remain are probably used to switching platforms because of hate-spee…

i see... i would really like to beleive it, personally

just about everyone i know under 50 is sick of trump and people like him, but i wonder sometimes if im just in a bubble... which is why i was curious, thanks

i guess we shall see in november

Re: Hong Kong: books by pro-democracy activists disappear from library shelves

#248

Post by NicoJuicy »

andrekandre wrote: post #247
NicoJuicy wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evidence, not exactly. It's more like society standing up against it. Instead of government censorships, platforms are taking matters into their own hands. While there was a lot of protest to "not act against Trump". There seems to be no protest of acting against Trump. So, objectively, it would mean a big majority is anti-Trump. And the voters that remain are probably used to switching platforms because of hate-spee…

i see... i would really like to beleive it, personally just about everyone i know under 50 is sick of trump and people like him, but i wonder sometimes if im just in a bubble... which is why i was curious, thanks i guess we shall see in november

Well, today had a couple of news items:

- women abandoning republican party - https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/07/republicans-women-s...

- republic woman not campaigning against Biden - https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/506256-susan-collins-sig...

- book about Trump ( of his niece)

...

To be honest, I'm not sure if I'm in a bubble. Didn't had the problem before ( Belgium), some people truelly believed for a while that Trump was good for the US. But all of them seem to have changed their opinion.

I believe it's easier when people start to see how dumb he is, for not "supporting" him anymore.

I'm not sure if it's me, since it's the first time they all changed their opinion in a reasonable short time ( 6 months ). I haven't followed up on my brothers business relations about this subject, I'll try soon though.

Also, I think I'm pretty objective. But I'm having similar doubts as you. So I think that's good?

We'll c. I'd say: don't forget to vote :)

Good luck

Re: Hong Kong: books by pro-democracy activists disappear from library shelves

#249

Post by 737min »

GuB-42 wrote: post #199
737min wrote: post #149

Hong Kong is the freedom and civil rights issue of this generation. There should be protests and boycotts in every US city about this, instead it barely receives coverage...

What is so special about Hong-Kong? It is a territorial dispute, it happens often in the world, and there are not protests and boycotts every time it happens. Just look at the Wikipedia page here, it is quite long: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes And for Honk-Kong, we already know how it will end. Hong-Kong will become part of mainland China in 2047, that's the deal. That's unless China cha…

It is special in the same way as other cases of smaller, more free places being taken over by stronger, less free regimes. US and “the West” supporting freedom and civil rights in such circumstances is both the right thing to do and the usual policy. The fact that oppression of Hong Kong (in violation of agreements, btw) not more of an issue for the US public is the only special thing here - it should be.

Re: Hong Kong: books by pro-democracy activists disappear from library shelves

#250

Post by xster »

njrc9 wrote: post #243
cvlasdkv wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd recommend reading: https://liberationschool.org/tiananmen-the-massacre-that-was... as well as the WikiLeaks documents and draw your own conclusions. CBS, NYT, and many other American sources all also do not report this "massacre" yet I recall it being in my textbooks and it being "common knowledge". It's become impossible for me to trust the US on anything domestic much less China. I'd hoped for much better from…

Thank you very much for the suggested readings. Recommendations like yours are very appreciated since I find it difficult to find such content via the usual means of discovery on the internet. I read through the first article. That and similar critical writings certainly make one doubt much of what one has learned and hears...

Now that Glenn Greenwald has been marginalized at The Intercept which produces really inconsistent articles these days, I find the Grayzone is excellent for doing investigative journalism.

Some sampling https://thegrayzone.com/2020/04/01/us-conspiracy-theory-on-c...

https://thegrayzone.com/2020/03/26/forced-labor-china-us-nat...

https://thegrayzone.com/2020/03/05/world-uyghur-congress-us-...

https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-millions-...

https://thegrayzone.com/2019/09/30/reports-china-organ-harve...

https://thegrayzone.com/2018/08/23/un-did-not-report-china-i...

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