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Oppose the Earn IT Act

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Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#241

Post by jrumbut »

apeace wrote: post #208

If you want to convince your friends they should support encryption, here's how I like to get past the "nothing to hide" argument. Imagine we're sitting at a bar, chatting. None of us have anything to hide. Then the government passes a law that all conversations must be streamed on Youtube Live, so an agent comes in, sets up a camera at our table, and starts streaming. We still don't "have anything to hide". We're ju…

I think the key here isn't broadcasting, it's storage. In the future (?) we might think we can detect Parkinson's or MS very early through voice/video/typing characteristics.

Your conversations were recorded, the data leaked to or purchased by a fly by night company hired by your bank, and now suddenly despite your excellent credit history you can't get a 30 year mortgage, you try to find a new job but companies are only offering 6 month contracts, etc.

It's hard to prove a database doesn't exist, better to encrypt the content beforehand and make it harder to create.

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#242

Post by smegger001 »

lkxijlewlf wrote: post #227
apeace wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the best part. Remind them that it’s not about you . It’s about whistleblowers and journalists who need to protect their sources, and lawyers who need to communicate with their clients. That tends to bring the ego down a peg ;) But honestly, it’s best not to be aggressive. Some people don’t care much, and you won’t convince them. FWIW, all my non-technical friends use Signal with me, and they know about verify…

> ... It’s about whistleblowers and journalists They'll say the media is the enemy and whistleblowers are traitors who should be shot on site. I'm not even kidding; they'll say this.

Have you been to my family reunion because I think that may constitute a direct quote. Of course four years ago they espoused the opposite standpoint toward whistle-blowers because obviously the other-side was bad-wrong and this administration is right-good.

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#243

Post by fiblye »

apeace wrote: post #226
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm stealing your analogy but I'm also ready for people to smugly proclaim that they would have no issue with livestreaming their entire life since they have nothing to hide.

That’s the best part. Remind them that it’s not about you . It’s about whistleblowers and journalists who need to protect their sources, and lawyers who need to communicate with their clients. That tends to bring the ego down a peg ;) But honestly, it’s best not to be aggressive. Some people don’t care much, and you won’t convince them. FWIW, all my non-technical friends use Signal with me, and they know about verify…

People who actually think this is fine tend to hate journalists and especially lawyers. They might walk away thinking this is a great idea.

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#244

Post by shay_ker »

apeace wrote: post #208

If you want to convince your friends they should support encryption, here's how I like to get past the "nothing to hide" argument. Imagine we're sitting at a bar, chatting. None of us have anything to hide. Then the government passes a law that all conversations must be streamed on Youtube Live, so an agent comes in, sets up a camera at our table, and starts streaming. We still don't "have anything to hide". We're ju…

I like the speeding analogy.

"I have nothing to hide"

"Have you ever sped on the highway?"

"Well, yes"

"Imagine if the government reveals it's been tracking everyone's speed, and has decided to write everyone tickets for speeding."

"That's insane, the government can't do that!"

"Exactly"

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#245

Post by serf »

grawprog wrote: post #231
apeace wrote: post #208

If you want to convince your friends they should support encryption, here's how I like to get past the "nothing to hide" argument. Imagine we're sitting at a bar, chatting. None of us have anything to hide. Then the government passes a law that all conversations must be streamed on Youtube Live, so an agent comes in, sets up a camera at our table, and starts streaming. We still don't "have anything to hide". We're ju…

>here's how I like to get past the "nothing to hide" argument. Personally I like to just remind people if we had nothing to hide, nobody would wear clothing, own curtains, or care about peeping toms.

>Personally I like to just remind people if we had nothing to hide, nobody would wear clothing,

you must live in a nice climate.

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#246

Post by [deleted] »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #220
apeace wrote: post #208

If you want to convince your friends they should support encryption, here's how I like to get past the "nothing to hide" argument. Imagine we're sitting at a bar, chatting. None of us have anything to hide. Then the government passes a law that all conversations must be streamed on Youtube Live, so an agent comes in, sets up a camera at our table, and starts streaming. We still don't "have anything to hide". We're ju…

I'm stealing your analogy but I'm also ready for people to smugly proclaim that they would have no issue with livestreaming their entire life since they have nothing to hide.

[deleted]

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#247

Post by zelly »

chejazi wrote: post #14

Obviously this sucks as a proposal but... how do we stop the child porn?

Make possession carry the death penalty.

Before you think that's too harsh, consider that the other options are to ban encryption or to not try to stop it at all (quasi-decriminalization).

I don't think anyone would oppose a bill to make CP carry the death penalty. The problem is they won't ever make this law because then they won't be able to milk the cow anymore.

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#248

Post by markkanof »

zelly wrote: post #229

This is the consequence of companies like Discord letting child predators run rampant on their platform and doing nothing about it. There are two sides to every story. You can imagine how the government would react after seeing hundreds and hundreds of cases coming out of Discord, Snap, even FB. Reading the actual bill[1] rather than sensational headlines, you can see this is mostly about creating a tip line and bure…

I initially thought you couldn't possibly be right about this, but what you stated does seem to be the case. After skimming through the full text, the main point of this seems to be about setting up a committee that will come up with "best practices" that online service providers can follow to reduce/eliminate the exploitation of children on their platform. Can someone explain how this "creates a threat to strong encryption".

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#249

Post by arafa »

apeace wrote: post #208

If you want to convince your friends they should support encryption, here's how I like to get past the "nothing to hide" argument. Imagine we're sitting at a bar, chatting. None of us have anything to hide. Then the government passes a law that all conversations must be streamed on Youtube Live, so an agent comes in, sets up a camera at our table, and starts streaming. We still don't "have anything to hide". We're ju…

I like to tell people about programs like "LOVEINT" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOVEINT). Where there is personal information available to others, it can and will be abused in ways you won't approve of. Privacy might seem like an abstract concern until you or someone you know is being stalked, etc.

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#250

Post by a1369209993 »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #215
a1369209993 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does "select a president [senator, etc] uniformly at random from the voting population" count as a voting system? I feel like that's about the only way to fix things at this point. (I'm partial to approval voting (vote "yes" or "no" for each cantidate separately and if the winner doesn't have at least 50% "yes", the office is vacant until the next election), but I suspect the party line would immediately become "you'…

> Does "select a president uniformly at random from the voting population" count as a voting system? Not voting, but it is a real election system, known as Sortition ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition ). It was used in ancient Athens. Also, yes, approval voting is a great approach and we should absolutely use it. We'd still get people who vote party-line, and it'd take a while for people to truly internalize t…

> known as Sortition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition). It was used in ancient Athens.

I vaguely remembered that, but not the name, thanks.

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