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How Did Vim Become So Popular?

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Re: How Did Vim Become So Popular?

#241

Post by not_kurt_godel »

war1025 wrote: post #89
blinding-streak wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hated Vi at first. Absolutely loathed it. I was all about emacs. But I gave vi another shot, and I'm so glad I did. The learning curve can be steep, and it's really unintuitive at first (or it was for me). But once it clicks a little bit, and you settle in.. Wow. I felt way more productive using it than any other editor.

I've been using vim for ~8 years now as my editor at work. I don't even use the "fancy" movements that everyone always brags about. It's still way more convenient to move around in than any other editor I've used. I don't know where I saw it, but the idea that "Code exists to be read" really resonates with me. I don't care how fast I can crank out code. I care about how efficiently I can hop around from place to plac…

This just sounds like a nightmare to me. I can't stand it when I have a terminal program with an unseeable list of files/panes that have to be opaquely navigated through. I very much want to be one of those vim/emacs ninjas but I just don't see how this is more ergonomic than Jetbrains where any file - not just 'open' ones - is readily available with all sorts of search methods with a single shortcut. And then I can visually see what files I'm working with instead of groping around through one file at a time in the dark.

Re: How Did Vim Become So Popular?

#242

Post by alpaca128 »

dannycastonguay wrote: post #68
blinding-streak wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hated Vi at first. Absolutely loathed it. I was all about emacs. But I gave vi another shot, and I'm so glad I did. The learning curve can be steep, and it's really unintuitive at first (or it was for me). But once it clicks a little bit, and you settle in.. Wow. I felt way more productive using it than any other editor.

(Helpful tip) map caps lock to escape: https://vim.fandom.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key

I prefer Ctrl on Caps Lock and Escape on the original Ctrl. Works pretty well too.

Re: How Did Vim Become So Popular?

#243

Post by L3viathan »

red75prime wrote: post #234
halotrope wrote: post #20

For me it is being able to efficiently navigate a file without leaving the home row (Gotta learn touch typing first). Once you understand the commands follow a composable grammar it is really like a superpower for dancing around text. „Go down 5 lines, move right two word, replace the contents of the brackets“. I don‘t use the actual editor all that often but have vim mode enabled in all my „real“ editors like VSCode…

> Go down 5 lines Look at the beginning of a target line, remember the number (takes up a slot in our limited short-term memory), switch to command mode, type the command. vs Hold/mash "down" button until cursor is there. After watching a few vim coding screen-casts I have the impression that the second way is more popular in vim too.

> switch to command mode

Why? Just use the 'relativenumber' option and do 5j.

> the second way is more popular in vim too.

Maybe for moving down 5 lines, but (I hope) not for things like "replace the inside of the brackets with what's in my A register". Otherwise you're really better off using a different editor.

Re: How Did Vim Become So Popular?

#244

Post by ulisesrmzroche »

buzzerbetrayed wrote: post #136
ulisesrmzroche wrote: post #124

I’ve been using Vim professionally for like ten years now and I can’t tell you what benefits do I get out it exactly. I still use a mouse and I don’t see what’s so bad about it.the whole home row argument has never been convincing.

If you’ve been using Vim for 10 years, and still use the mouse, then you haven’t really been taking advantage of the power of Vim. Perhaps that’s why you don’t see much personal benefit?

No, I’ve been posting here for that long too. I haven’t been living under a rock. I got my own vimrc and everything, it’s just not that useful in practice.

Re: How Did Vim Become So Popular?

#245

Post by harisund »

brabel wrote: post #228
pengaru wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's too many little things to mention, they do all add up to be quite significant in the course of programming. Here's a tiny sample of some stuff I use constantly: Move cursor forward word at a time: w ignoring punctuation: W reverse: b B Move cursor to next occurrence of character Z: fZ reverse: FZ Delete forward to next occurrence of character Z: dfZ reverse: dFZ Change forward to next occurrence of character…

Honestly, I can do almost all of these things with any standard editor as well, with standard shortcuts. The ones I can't do directly, I can do via Search/Replace functionality that is also standard in most modern editors. Your example about refactoring a function by using text editing capabilities is actually pretty bad unless you mean Vim can actually parse your programming language and perform the refactoring over…

Here's the real question - So you are convinced you don't need Vim, right? Why are you on this thread?

No one's saying vim is superior. However, you need to have an open mind to understand the alternatives.

It's not like Vim is a paid product and by you not using it, Vim is going to die out soon or anything.

If you dont' like it, great? You are happy with the alternative, great. You seem like you just want to deliberately start an argument and then prove you are right, but why?

Re: How Did Vim Become So Popular?

#246

Post by ulisesrmzroche »

slim wrote: post #204
ulisesrmzroche wrote: post #124

I’ve been using Vim professionally for like ten years now and I can’t tell you what benefits do I get out it exactly. I still use a mouse and I don’t see what’s so bad about it.the whole home row argument has never been convincing.

do you use backspace to delete things ?

Cw, dw, I’m not dumb or unwilling to learn. It’s just not that useful day-to-day

Re: How Did Vim Become So Popular?

#247

Post by teddyh »

Lio wrote: post #217
licebmi__at__ wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely, even now as I use emacs, I'm a 100% evil. It's just so natural (once you get it), that I don't know how other bindings (like ctrl-[whatever]) are prevalent in most other software, it's not like they are more memorable or intuitive. Fun story: I was into Free/Libre software as a teen, when I learnt how to move around in vi(m) and in my first tech gig (as a sysadmin), I was interviewed by some greybeard who…

(Funnily enough ctrl-[ is one of my most used shortcuts in vim. It’s a convenient alternative to escape if you map caps-lock to ctrl)

Note: Often Ctrl-3 does the same thing.

Re: How Did Vim Become So Popular?

#248

Post by maxnoe »

spupy wrote: post #235
ricksharp wrote: post #92

Does anyone have a good video comparing vim speed coding vs vscode using built in editor features? I’ve been using vscode for years and the YouTube videos that demo vim features are shallow (like how to enter a blank line - really?). I can do the same thing I have seen in vim videos without memorizing a bunch of strange key bindings all while being able to edit code instantly without changing modes. I would love to s…

There's no point in comparing them, in my opinion. VS Code is a tool for programming; I would call it an IDE but I 'm not very familiar with the app. Vim is still "just an editor". You can still use it for programming (not just coding bash scripts), but that's making your life harder than it needs to be. In my experience the amazing text editing features of vim are only very rarely useful in a software developer's wo…

My (neo)vim can do more than vs code in default config.

Both support plugins, so the possibilities are basically endless

Re: How Did Vim Become So Popular?

#249

Post by Lio »

spupy wrote: post #235
ricksharp wrote: post #92

Does anyone have a good video comparing vim speed coding vs vscode using built in editor features? I’ve been using vscode for years and the YouTube videos that demo vim features are shallow (like how to enter a blank line - really?). I can do the same thing I have seen in vim videos without memorizing a bunch of strange key bindings all while being able to edit code instantly without changing modes. I would love to s…

There's no point in comparing them, in my opinion. VS Code is a tool for programming; I would call it an IDE but I 'm not very familiar with the app. Vim is still "just an editor". You can still use it for programming (not just coding bash scripts), but that's making your life harder than it needs to be. In my experience the amazing text editing features of vim are only very rarely useful in a software developer's wo…

If you care for them vim has access to many of the same features as VSCode via LSP and the same plugins that VSCode uses.

Why would one be suitable for programming but not the other?

It just comes down to UI preference and whether you want to configure things yourself or not.

Re: How Did Vim Become So Popular?

#250

Post by alpaca128 »

generalk wrote: post #79
stragies wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here, and then i discovered EVIL, the vi layer for emacs. The best of all worlds: Vim text manipulation grammar over the emacs engine.

I've used Emacs for many years, and recently switched to Spacemacs, a set of configs that kind of takes over Emacs and puts a great platform on top of it. I frequently describe Spacemacs as a better vim than vim. Don't get me wrong, I've used vim for ages; I'll never stop editing server config with vi, nor will I stop getting mad when vi is actually vi and not vim. But for a day to day code editor? Spacemacs is aston…

The problem with Emacs and all its modifications is that it cannot match Vim's flexible system for custom keybindings. And because of that Evil mode has the same limitation, beside its insistence to prefer using builtin Emacs functionality over emulating Vim behaviour correctly.

And the other thing that I could never get used to is that Emacs' terminals can't handle ncurses applications. I usually like to run Vim in a terminal multiplexer and combine it with various terminal utilities when needed, and Emacs doesn't support that - unless you run it in a terminal, but then Evil mode stops working properly...

I'm fine with Vim, but I'm glad I tried Emacs for a while because it does have some nice ideas.

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