I'm getting major Microsoft Access vibes from this. I guess we really have come full circle.
Amazon Honeycode – build web and mobile apps without writing code
241–250 of 331 posts
Re: Amazon Honeycode – build web and mobile apps without writing code
#242Looks quite basic versus alternatives like OutSystems.
Re: Amazon Honeycode – build web and mobile apps without writing code
#243A while back Microsoft announced Microsoft Lists, which is a similar tool. Of course there are also existing tools like Airtable, Bubble, Mendix etc. All these tools are great, but they have some downsides in my opinion.
- If the product ever gets discontinued you might lose all your work.
- All these tools have limits regarding the amount of rows you can store.
- If your business depends on such a product and the pricing model changes, it might bankrupt you.
- You can't create or download real plugin that integrate well if you are missing features.
- In most cases you can't host it at your own servers.
- You might end up in a vendor lock-in.
These are some of the reasons why I started Baserow. It is an open source alternative to Airtable and in the far future also for tools like Bubble. While it is still in an early phase there is a test version at https://baserow.io that everyone can try. In the coming weeks you can expect the open source release. Right now, I am finishing up the documentation, examples, plugin boilerplate and some final small changes. After that you can self host it without any limits, vendor lock-in or price changes.
Re: Amazon Honeycode – build web and mobile apps without writing code
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you are radically underestimating the perceived barriers to entry with programming. You sound a lot like the Linux advocates who think everyone should just memorize a bunch of commands, and get used to using shell. This type of insider view is often referred to as 'the curse of knowledge'.
> You sound a lot like the Linux advocates who think everyone should just memorize a bunch of commands, and get used to using shell. But they should. People aren't stupid, shells aren't horrifically complicated if you try a bit and once you climb that hurdle you're suddenly a "tech genius".
Just like some developers should learn that developers are users too, and not all of us enjoy doing the stuff the hard way just because it feels better somehow.
Re: Amazon Honeycode – build web and mobile apps without writing code
#245I think the thing that "coding without code" fundamentally misses is that learning to actually write Python or Java or whatever is not the hard part of being productive in a business context. The hard part of creating useful software is that you have to understand a business process and its requirements so precisely that you can write it down for the computer to do. I work with business stakeholders creating internal…
I think you are radically underestimating the perceived barriers to entry with programming. You sound a lot like the Linux advocates who think everyone should just memorize a bunch of commands, and get used to using shell. This type of insider view is often referred to as 'the curse of knowledge'.
I think it's a case of a bit of both.
Re: Amazon Honeycode – build web and mobile apps without writing code
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's interesting to me that Excel had a low barrier of entry, but more advanced stuff gets pretty unwieldy. I'm used to wiring complex SQL queries, but some Excel stuff takes me a while to understand.
Like? I strongly believe spreadsheets is the best interface for non tech people, we need need to be able to connect it to data for the non tech folks. Disclaimer: Which is why I am working on https://stitchiq.com/
I don't have any that I can share publicly, but I've had to debug some fairly horrendous sheets.
Spreadsheets are a great tool that allows people to leverage computers without knowing how to code, but they can easily get awful to debug. Even excluding stuff like VBA; which is code, but gets included via google-driven copy/paste development.
For example, excel formulas from other sheets can modify cells in the existing sheet. This modification can be logically driven from changes in a 3rd sheet. So cell 1 in sheet A gets modified for some reason when something changes in sheet C. Formulas in sheet B are changing these values, but good luck figuring out that. Breakpoints aren't really an excel thing, debugging complicated sheets is very hard. Unfortunately, most of these sorts of files aren't available online, as they are viewed as the 'secret sauce' for the businesses using them.
Your landing page is too few on details, so maybe you have solved this problem, but from your comment it seems that you haven't had to approach it from this angle. Trust me, businesses run critical decisions on excel sheets with creation dates in the early 2000's, and the amount of tweaking can turn them into behemoths. That is why the low/no-code solutions scare me- easy to start doesn't mean that you won't have an unsolvable hairball in 5 years.
Re: Amazon Honeycode – build web and mobile apps without writing code
#247I think the thing that "coding without code" fundamentally misses is that learning to actually write Python or Java or whatever is not the hard part of being productive in a business context. The hard part of creating useful software is that you have to understand a business process and its requirements so precisely that you can write it down for the computer to do. I work with business stakeholders creating internal…
Sounds like we have a similar career track.
My joke is that the only place a stakeholder should hold a stake I'd through the heart (on the bad days).
Some stakeholders are brilliant they explain what they want in sufficient detail and get out the way.
The worst are the ones who try to tell you how the software works internally.
You don't hire a builder and then interfere with every brick course laid down, at least if you want the wall finishing on time.
Re: Amazon Honeycode – build web and mobile apps without writing code
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
My counterpoint (to your original point) is that it's not about writing code. Making an app like this and putting it online (with roughly the same level of features) requires: * Learning a backend language, like Python * Learning how to design a data model * Learning how to design an admin interface * Managing authentication, security, and performance * Learning HTML, CSS, and Javascript * Learning how to set up a uw…
> I still can't imagine going to the trouble of actually doing all of that if I can just log into HoneyComb and make everything nice and quick and just get it done. That sounds all nice and good until one inevitably runs into limitations of the software. And then it has to be made again, this time from scratch. > bashing it together with Django and deploying it to an EC2 VM is almost definitely not your differentiate…
Why wouldn't you? People have used excel scripting for real business tools for decades.
I fail to see how Honeycode outright disqualifies for everything related to vast field of "business" because of its limitations. In fact, I think that is very much, where it will be able to solve a lot of problems efficiently.
All of them? No, just like any other tool. They all come with their set of drawbacks.
Re: Amazon Honeycode – build web and mobile apps without writing code
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
Like? I strongly believe spreadsheets is the best interface for non tech people, we need need to be able to connect it to data for the non tech folks. Disclaimer: Which is why I am working on https://stitchiq.com/
I don't have any that I can share publicly, but I've had to debug some fairly horrendous sheets. Spreadsheets are a great tool that allows people to leverage computers without knowing how to code, but they can easily get awful to debug. Even excluding stuff like VBA; which is code, but gets included via google-driven copy/paste development. For example, excel formulas from other sheets can modify cells in the existin…
I agree they can get messed up, to understand that I am also working on http://ihatemyspreadsheet.com :)
I have yet to hit the issues per se, but what I am partially betting on, is that once spreadsheets are just an interface rather than datastore (where possible), some of those issues can be resolved. One will loose realtime reactivity, but what they were trying to achieve anyway was to access a "canonical" data point.
I should have a video and more details on the website in a day or two
Re: Amazon Honeycode – build web and mobile apps without writing code
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's interesting to me that Excel had a low barrier of entry, but more advanced stuff gets pretty unwieldy. I'm used to wiring complex SQL queries, but some Excel stuff takes me a while to understand.
Like? I strongly believe spreadsheets is the best interface for non tech people, we need need to be able to connect it to data for the non tech folks. Disclaimer: Which is why I am working on https://stitchiq.com/
Spreadsheets are a very good model, and they have tremendous potential (which has been fully utilized) due to their "visual programming" aspect, but the excel formula language, array formulas and VBA are not the best places to ramp up to when things get more complex and advanced. There's quite a bit of horror stories of Excel gone wrong [1]
I've been positively suprised that Microsoft seems to have started to finally improve this situation with things like XLOOKUP and increasing Python support in Excel.
Disclaimer: I've published in a group doing research on Spreadsheet improvements, this is the professor's publication history [2]
[1] http://www.eusprig.org/horror-stories.htm [2] https://www.felienne.com/publications