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Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

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Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#241

Post by ghostwriter »

colinmorelli wrote: post #70
diffctx99 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You fail to define what the legitimate issues are. They have no real hardware or store monopoly, Android still out numbers them in install base. Legally it’s undecided at all. This is essentially complaining Walmart and Target use different means of revenue generation for placing product. Maybe Microsoft can get a phone and store off the ground that has a bigger install base. Oh wait. Maybe app sellers should have he…

They choose to go "all in" because it is literally the only option to get an app on the devices of ~58% of smartphone owners in the United States. They don't have a choice, they literally have to accept it in this market. Even in other markets where they don't control the majority, it's still a massive portion of the market. It's hard to imagine how the precedent established by not forcing change here would be desire…

They do have a choice, it's called a Web App.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#242

Post by evilduck »

YayamiOmate wrote: post #187
objclxt wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but clearly as was shown with Microsoft in the 90s, they could be forced to allow competition on their devices But as the parent comment you're replying to said, the situations aren't comparable. Microsoft had over 90% of the market in the 90s. You could not stop using Windows, because there was simply no credible alternative for most consumers. That's not true for iOS. If Microsoft at the time had, say, 50% of the…

It depends how you define market. Apple has control over 100% of ios apps. I doubt ms had 90% of consumer electronics market or even os.

Walmart has 100% monopoly over their store space. Verizon has 100% monopoly over what can connect to their network. Google has a monopoly over the Play Store. Cows have a monopoly over milk production. At which point does this argument stop working?

> I doubt ms had 90% of consumer electronics market or even os.

You should probably look that up then, instead of "doubting": https://www.justice.gov/atr/us-v-microsoft-courts-findings-f...

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#243

Post by viklove »

zepto wrote: post #205
starbugs wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What serious business, be it B2C or B2B, in today's software world, doesn't require a mobile app on either iOS and Android or a desktop app on Chrome/Windows/macOS?

Are you saying all three of Microsoft, Google, and Apple are unethical?

Unequivocally yes, MS, Google, and Apple are all deeply unethical. This is proven in their business practices as well as their manufacturing practices. The problem is we live in a society that values money over all else, including human suffering and fair access to markets.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#244

Post by thebruce87m »

blattimwind wrote: post #101
codemac wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is not a monopoly! They have a majority (not monopoly) on a very specific US-based market. They aren't the only US market, and they are a small international market. Apple isn't even the #1 handset manufacturer (they are #3 or #4 depending on who you ask), and far and away isn't the #1 laptop manufacturer. The attitude that it is a monopoly is exactly the disconnect between this article and your comment. The ar…

I think that's exactly the point and it even applies to Macbooks: Apple just makes some pretty average laptops with poor price-performance ratio (even in the allegedly-high-end segment) and they clearly don't have a monopoly or even significant market share [1] in that category. Apple is just somewhat unique in that there is a very vocal minority of people who have decided that they only ever want to use Apple laptop…

I don’t buy Apple laptops or any laptops Any more but it’s interesting that you cite poor price-performance.

15 years ago when I did they had great cost-performance, i.e. they held their value relative to the competition, remained usable for longer for a number of reasons and when sold actually yielded better value over the full lifecycle. Has this changed?

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#245

Post by scarface74 »

CydeWeys wrote: post #3

"Whining" is an overly prejudicial word choice for this title. These are legitimate issues people have with what Apple is doing, not mere whining. This echoes the "if you don't like it so much then just leave instead of speaking up" dismissal that is so commonly used as a lampshade for suppressing dissent. Not sure if that's the intent here but that's what it comes off as. And this point from the article needs to be…

There is another alternative - Android. The same alternative that 80%+ of the market chooses.

Yes. Why would I complain about an option when I have another option? I think the entire Android ecosystem is janky. So I don’t buy Android devices.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#246

Post by thephyber »

denni9th wrote: post #68
jhloa2 wrote: post #18

"I know that the devices are pretty and feel nice and maybe your friends all have one and you want to signal that you’re one of the crowd, but it’s not worth it." That's quite an over simplification of the appeal of an iPhone and comes off as him whining about whiners. I'd like to switch back to a flip phone from a privacy perspective, but there's a few conveniences that would be hard to go without. I refuse to buy a…

The issue is app stores. Most app developers/companies won't deploy to any stores other than Google's and Apple's, so when it comes to choosing a device that can run most apps its IPhone or Android. A solution here is to introduce a standard mobile app format, with standard APIs to interact with the OS. Then app developers write one app that can run on any supported device. But good luck getting the duopoly to agree…

> A solution here is to introduce a standard mobile app format, with standard APIs to interact with the OS.

I would argue that's exactly what Android is. It's a mobile OS with a mobile app ecosystem of APIs.

But the fact that no government forced all smartphones to use it means it didn't and likely won't happen. Also, governments don't seem to move at the speed of iOS/Android features, so taking that hypothetical path would have likely meant all mobile phone features slowed a lot.

> The issue is app stores.

Another solution is for governments to enforce reasonable access to all mobile app companies and to make sure the purchases and data are portable to all similar devices (say all smartphones or all game consoles). It's not that hard to make the coupling of the app binary to the device tight but the license to use the software portable.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#247

Post by scarface74 »

Androider wrote: post #153
codemac wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is not a monopoly! They have a majority (not monopoly) on a very specific US-based market. They aren't the only US market, and they are a small international market. Apple isn't even the #1 handset manufacturer (they are #3 or #4 depending on who you ask), and far and away isn't the #1 laptop manufacturer. The attitude that it is a monopoly is exactly the disconnect between this article and your comment. The ar…

You don't need to be a monopoly to have antitrust action taken against you, you just need to have sufficient market power and engage in behavior which is anti-competitive. House Antitrust Committee chairman David Cicilline yesterday: “Because of the market power that Apple has, it is charging exorbitant rents — highway robbery, basically — bullying people to pay 30 percent or denying access to their market,” said Rep…

A house member can say anything they want. It means absolutely nothing legally. If small developers can’t live off of 70%. They need to raise their prices by 43% to account for the 30% cut.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#248

Post by scarface74 »

chacham15 wrote: post #173
codemac wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is not a monopoly! They have a majority (not monopoly) on a very specific US-based market. They aren't the only US market, and they are a small international market. Apple isn't even the #1 handset manufacturer (they are #3 or #4 depending on who you ask), and far and away isn't the #1 laptop manufacturer. The attitude that it is a monopoly is exactly the disconnect between this article and your comment. The ar…

> Apple is not a monopoly! They have a majority (not monopoly) on a very specific US-based market In the video "Competition is for Losers with Peter Thiel", Peter Thiel discusses this. The problem here is in how you define "monopoly". If you're a large company, you want to say that the market is a lot larger than what you are operating in. To take this to an extreme, you could say that you're a technology company and…

That’s “common” based on what judicial precedent. What makes Peter Thiel’s opinion more relevant than any random HN poster who doesn’t know what a monopoly is?

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#249

Post by ghostwriter »

jonny_eh wrote: post #207
RandomBacon wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put up a banner that says IE is not supported, download one of these browsers instead. If you say "No" because it will drive away your customers, then it absolutely is for you. It sounds like you were putting profits before principles.

And in the case of iOS, you put a banner on a website saying "Buy a similar $1K Android instead"?

Most of the iOS/Android software could be run in a modern browser and be accessble from any device that speaks HTTP.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#250

Post by smt88 »

buo wrote: post #199
smt88 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You send emails to Google and Apple email servers at least. You may also be recorded by Assistant or Siri when visiting friends or relatives, or even just when their phones are near you. You likely hit Google's cloud every day when visiting websites on its platform.

I didn't mean to say that I have had absolutely no interaction with any existing Apple or Google service or technology. I'm neither a fundamentalist nor a hermit. Rather, whenever it is my choice, I prefer to select products and technologies that don't belong to Apple, Google or similar companies.

Sorry, I did a poor job of making my point.

@hkarthik implied that it's impossible to use technology and also boycott Apple and/or Google. I agree with them.

You seemed to disagree by saying that you do boycott Apple and Google.

The point I was trying to make is that you're part of their revenue stream even if you yourself don't have any consumer relationship with them. That's why they feel like a monopoly to so many of us and why we criticize them rather than leaving their ecosystem. We can't leave their ecosystem!

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