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Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

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Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#241

Post by Infinitesimus »

koheripbal wrote: post #137
throwaway0613 wrote: post #118

Bear in mind that Zoom is a Chinese company — the founding team is Chinese; the core engineering and ops teams are largely in Suzhou and Hangzhou. So, while they are incorporated in the US and have significant presence in their HQ, their ties to China are stronger than the more-commonly-discussed outsourced-engineering sort of relationship.

We are rapidly devolving into separate internets.

I think that is inevitable as long as the top N companies enforce their morals and standards on consumers all over the world.

If the world could agree, we can legistlate these companies to be neutral and grant then protection from some state lawsuits if they don't enforce standards that aren't globally agreed upon (by the UN for instance).

It will be tricky because that means admitting that internet companies are their own independent states and many countries will not be happy with that.

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#242

Post by IgorPartola »

Remember when Zoom bought Keybase last month and some of us were raising concerns that Zoom is beholden to the CCP and most of the HN discussion thread was defending the company saying how just because they employ a lot of people in China doesn’t mean they will do anything like this? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#243

Post by hrktb »

modeless wrote: post #44
HALtheWise wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most US companies that I am familiar with apply US laws to all their users, at least to some extent. For example, I don't think that YouTube will allow you to post a blatantly copyright-infringing video, even if your account declares a country that doesn't enforce US copyright laws. Similarly, I suspect that Facebook would take down a page for a terrorist group, without needing permission from the country they are ba…

US companies may enforce US law but they're not hiding the fact that they're US companies. Zoom claimed not to be a Chinese company while enforcing Chinese law for US users.

Is the Youtube entity dealing with EU users a US company ? Aren’t they based in Ireland for all business and legal purposes for these users ?

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#244

Post by DoubleGlazing »

gonehome wrote: post #14

“The reality is Zoom operates in more than 80 countries and continues to expand, which requires compliance with local laws even as Zoom seeks to promote the open exchange of ideas.“ This kind of rationalization isn’t just a problem with Zoom, Apple does the same thing - blocking podcasts and other apps in the Chinese market (also the Taiwan flag emoji). This is wrong. What’s legal and what’s right are not the same th…

In a perfect world the EU/US (and others with big tech presences) would have laws that state companies based in their jurisdictions can only operate in other countries where they aren't required to change their policies or practices in ways that would breach UN human rights guidelines.

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#245

Post by ngcc_hk »

Chinese firm can go into USA, build a firm and control USA media but not USA firm. It is asymmetrical warfare.

War? USA firm are not party and national related. Chinese firm all are.

USA is naive for a long time to look the other way and that china will change to better. So what I treat you fairly but not the other way round meant ok.

Good luck but luck is running out. They do not need to be successful, but once like editing gene of baby. You lost.

If they fail to control their virus handling from low tech like bat eating to virus testing in their 44 p3 lab and the p4 Wuhan one. Just once. Or maybe twice. Humanity lost.

Or done with.

To be fair if all are equal. But if china is more equal than USA in market access. Good luck again

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#246

Post by shoulderfake »

atoav wrote: post #183
HALtheWise wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most US companies that I am familiar with apply US laws to all their users, at least to some extent. For example, I don't think that YouTube will allow you to post a blatantly copyright-infringing video, even if your account declares a country that doesn't enforce US copyright laws. Similarly, I suspect that Facebook would take down a page for a terrorist group, without needing permission from the country they are ba…

Where you can see this most clearly is nudity. Traditionally europe had a more liberal approach when it came to nudity — that was until US platforms came in with their prude nipple policing.

Not Twitter!

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#247

Post by hn_check »

gonehome wrote: post #14

“The reality is Zoom operates in more than 80 countries and continues to expand, which requires compliance with local laws even as Zoom seeks to promote the open exchange of ideas.“ This kind of rationalization isn’t just a problem with Zoom, Apple does the same thing - blocking podcasts and other apps in the Chinese market (also the Taiwan flag emoji). This is wrong. What’s legal and what’s right are not the same th…

Conflating Apple and Zoom is fucking ridiculous.

Apple complies with Chinese law in China. Chinese products comply with US law in the US.

There is no universe where Apple is going to change Chinese law, and arguments to that effect are stupid nonsense.

Zoom applied Chinese law extraterritoriality to the US. THAT is reprehensible.

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#248

Post by hrktb »

chii wrote: post #197
astatine wrote: post #88

These skirmishes (Zoom now, TikTok earlier and the ongoing Huawei one) make for interesting shows, for those outside China and the US. China uses nationalism as the excuse for censorship. As long as you don't criticize China you are free to do anything you want. The US uses morality as the excuse for censorship. As long as you don't do anything that violates that particular notion of morality (the American way of lif…

The american way of life is easier. Because it's demonstrably better so far.

Feels like the current events aren’t really going in that direction.

And it’s sad because we’d really need to have decent govs and leadership where the power concentrated.

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#249

Post by newbie578 »

I am amazed yet again how willing are people here to defend Zoom and China, even daring to compare USA to China lol. While the U.S. might not be perfect and it does have its share of problems, it cannot compare to a fraction of China's problems.

Zoom is China's shill, while representing itself as a U.S. company, which should be publicly condemned.

Re: Zoom Acknowledges It Suspended Activists' Accounts at China's Request

#250

Post by hn_check »

HALtheWise wrote: post #36
monocasa wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, as absolutely reprehensible Apple's similar actions are, Zoom canceled _a US based account_ because of a Chinese request. It's one thing to be all "we comply with local laws", and another to enforce one country's geopolitical aspirations across international borders. Like, I think companies should take a stand and both aren't acceptable, but Zoom takes new, additional steps here.

Most US companies that I am familiar with apply US laws to all their users, at least to some extent. For example, I don't think that YouTube will allow you to post a blatantly copyright-infringing video, even if your account declares a country that doesn't enforce US copyright laws. Similarly, I suspect that Facebook would take down a page for a terrorist group, without needing permission from the country they are ba…

Universal Copyright Convention (UCC) and Berne Convention. This covers the vast majority of the world.
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