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Do I need to go to university?

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Re: Do I need to go to university?

#241

Post by da39a3ee »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #238
da39a3ee wrote: post #232

This Thiel-influenced not-going-to-university thing has got quite tedious. It's as if people think the only thing worth learning is coding and entrepreneurship. If all you want to learn is programming and to a lesser extent computer science then I guess you don't really need to. However if you want to learn science, medicine, law, mathematics or any other real subject then of course you should. Plus if you want to ha…

It's that last sentence that covinces me that university is obsolete or at best misrepresented as an educational experience. Getting 100 grand into debt to have fun and have sex? Get wasted? And jf I appear to be cherrypicking the second half of your post, it's because thr first half is cherry picking itself - I'll venture that fields where you Do need university stamp of approval such as medicine and law are becomin…

> Getting 100 grand into debt to have fun and have sex? Get wasted?

Fair enough. I spoke from a European perspective where it is in many places not at all that sort of financial consideration.

> But north American universities (and I'm an alumni of a good one)

If that were so then would you not be an alumnus or an alumna?

Sorry.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#242

Post by omaranto »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #238
da39a3ee wrote: post #232

This Thiel-influenced not-going-to-university thing has got quite tedious. It's as if people think the only thing worth learning is coding and entrepreneurship. If all you want to learn is programming and to a lesser extent computer science then I guess you don't really need to. However if you want to learn science, medicine, law, mathematics or any other real subject then of course you should. Plus if you want to ha…

It's that last sentence that covinces me that university is obsolete or at best misrepresented as an educational experience. Getting 100 grand into debt to have fun and have sex? Get wasted? And jf I appear to be cherrypicking the second half of your post, it's because thr first half is cherry picking itself - I'll venture that fields where you Do need university stamp of approval such as medicine and law are becomin…

So don't go into debt to go to university then. I think that's pretty easy if you avoid the US for your undergraduate degree, and it's probably also possible in the US with some planning and careful university choosing. And if you pick the field of your PhD with some care you can do a PhD without going into debt, even in the US.

You mention medicine and law as fields were you need to go to university, but you forgot also the vast majority of research. I think some subfields of computer science, because of their youth, are still the wild west and it is possible to do research in them without a PhD (like the author of the article), but even in those it's hard. In math you definitely see almost no research at all being done by non-PhDs, probably the same is true in various sciences.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#243

Post by BoysenberryPi »

I'm in my mid 20s, dropped out of college 3-4 years ago and have managed to get an average paying development job. I would go back to college and get my degree but there are two things that hold me back.

1) Dealing with college admissions is literally one of the most frustrating things I have ever done. The IRS has given me less run around than most college admissions I talk to.

2) Money. It all comes down to money. I'm having a very hard time justifying the cost at the end of the day.

With that being said, if someone comes up to me and ask me if they should go to college my answer is absolutely.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#244

Post by flak48 »

dcole2929 wrote: post #225

I think this article misses out on what in my opinion is the biggest reason to go to college for a teen and it all has to do exploration. Simply put you don't know what you don't know and at 17-18 that can be a lot. College gives you an opportunity to explore who you are and what you care about in an environment largely free of external stress (yes I know there can be stress but it's generally a lot different than "I…

Your comment is much more than this, but: just wanted to add that in a lot of places (like India) the norm is being forced to pick your major before entering college, which unfortunately negates a lot of the self-discovery that happens in freshman year.

But besides the area of study / major I loved the college experience of being forced to be away from the sheltered environment of home (although college is sheltered and restrictive in it's own ways). Being able to recognize thought patterns and impulses that I always grew up with felt like being able to see new colours that I never knew existed.

Also being able to make friends - I don't take this for granted.When you are in an environment where you have 10x to 100x the number of people you went to high school with, it is much easier to find someone/ somoe group that you can gel with regardless of how many ever quirks you have. After all these years, my best friends are still the ones I made in college - not the ones before nor the ones that came after.

At the very least I'm grateful to my college education for making me less of an overconfident asshole who thought he knew it all, while at the same time boosting my confidence in other ways.

I understand that in many countries like the US, the exorbitant cost of uni education might make what I said look like nice-to-haves and luxuries but I'm happy for a change to be born in a place where I could afford to have this experience (while recognizing that many will not be privileged enough to experience even this :( )

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#245

Post by ryanmjacobs »

Man, props for this post and the subsequent discussions. It's eye-opening to read through everything. As a current university student, the COVID situation is awful. We're paying full tuition ($15k/year) for recorded Zoom lectures. I'm seriously considering taking a gap year. I wanted to complete research during my 4th year, but it's hard to get close to professors over sporadic interactions.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#247

Post by NikolaNovak »

da39a3ee wrote: post #241
NikolaNovak wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's that last sentence that covinces me that university is obsolete or at best misrepresented as an educational experience. Getting 100 grand into debt to have fun and have sex? Get wasted? And jf I appear to be cherrypicking the second half of your post, it's because thr first half is cherry picking itself - I'll venture that fields where you Do need university stamp of approval such as medicine and law are becomin…

> Getting 100 grand into debt to have fun and have sex? Get wasted? Fair enough. I spoke from a European perspective where it is in many places not at all that sort of financial consideration. > But north American universities (and I'm an alumni of a good one) If that were so then would you not be an alumnus or an alumna? Sorry.

Fair enough - It has admittedly been 25 years since Terra Terrae Terrae Terram Terra Terra rt has been instilled into my head -and I'm rescuing those neurons just as fast as I can! :-D

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#248

Post by jmchuster »

sokoloff wrote: post #160
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until you interview people who haven't been to college.

For people who make it through the initial technical screening to the on-site round, I think there's probably a positive correlation to outcome for those who are self-taught. (I equally suspect there's a higher percentage filtered out before on-site, of course.)

And the best results are with those who were self-taught, and then went to college on top of that.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#249

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

topkai22 wrote: post #211
juped wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be sure to get the 4.0 GPA too - it's very nice to have for surprisingly long. Absolutely don't "challenge yourself". You can do that when you're not being graded on it.

Assuming that's remotely feasible. My alma mater only had 7 students graduate with a 4.0 ... In 60 years of existence. I went to a top tier school and struggled with various parts of the curriculum (CHEM52, I'm looking at you). I convinced myself that I wasn't smart/good enough for various futures I'd previously envisioned, like academia or research. My confidence was shot and it affected where I applied for jobs out…

I wonder what those 4.0 former students are doing now.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#250

Post by prawn »

flak48 wrote: post #244
dcole2929 wrote: post #225

I think this article misses out on what in my opinion is the biggest reason to go to college for a teen and it all has to do exploration. Simply put you don't know what you don't know and at 17-18 that can be a lot. College gives you an opportunity to explore who you are and what you care about in an environment largely free of external stress (yes I know there can be stress but it's generally a lot different than "I…

Your comment is much more than this, but: just wanted to add that in a lot of places (like India) the norm is being forced to pick your major before entering college, which unfortunately negates a lot of the self-discovery that happens in freshman year. But besides the area of study / major I loved the college experience of being forced to be away from the sheltered environment of home (although college is sheltered…

"being forced to pick your major before entering college, which unfortunately negates a lot of the self-discovery that happens in freshman year."

I was generally a straight-A student leaving high school but lasted six months at university before quitting. I distinctly remember much of my career decision was based on a single sentence description of the engineering degree flavour. I had good entrance scores but wasn't interested in medicine or dentistry. The description mentioned computers and design which were two things I enjoyed, but in reality it was more about designing computers rather than with computers. Had great teachers and parents but don't recall being steered by any of them on my selection.

Not sure what the answer is, but I imagine it involves more flexibility in that process (rather than prerequisite courses that start to narrow in at age 15) and more guidance.

At one point, we were given a large book - an index of jobs, basically. We flipped through and laughed at "cheesemaker" and "crane chaser" but there was not much about areas of interest or one-on-one with counsellors. Is a high school teacher really going to be best positioned to coach their cohort (with varied interests) on what direction to take?

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