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Remote work means anyone can take your job

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Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#241
This thought isn't new. The company I work for now has been around a while, and they went through an entire phase of remote work. They have walked it back lately. We still have plenty of people working from various corners of the country, but new hires are on site at one of our office locations.

I won't be surprised to see a renewed push for remote work, but the tools are still pretty mediocre compared to in person collaboration, so I also won't be surprised to see some pushback as organizational leaders decide getting people in a room is worth paying extra for.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that 'Tennessee' is the correct spelling for Shenzhen. The low cost of living states in the US are still expensive compared to low cost of living countries. There is engineering talent around the world, and I don't see how the rural parts of the US are going to compete with more urban populations in other well educated parts of the world.

Anectodal, but I spent a year on a recent project collaborating with a group of firmware engineers in Shenzhen, and it was an absolute nightmare. Apart from the timezones, the code quality was horrendous and basically never worked correctly. They also ignored all common standards, and made assumptions about things like ordering of fields in JSON. None of their engineers spoke english, so code communication had to go…

I’ve worked with Chinese developers and their English and programming skills were fine. Just check for English language skills in the interview if it’s important to your company.

Personally I think that non technical project managers are the bigger problem, remote or not.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#243
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any proof for that? Everything I know says that more qualified people congregate, in general in the places with the highest cost of living...

more qualified people congregate, in general in the places with the highest cost of living That has to do with short job tenures (in the US) and industry consolidation. In the past, someone might have joined Upjohn in Kalamazoo, Eli Lilly in Indianapolis or Dow in Midland and stayed there their whole careers. Nowadays everyone changes jobs every 5 years and employment is in San Francisco, Boston and San Diego. It's p…

>It's problematic.

I'd say that's the understatement of the century.

Mass wealth accumulation and wealth inequality has shifted power so far towards businesses that the general populous requires solving a massive orchestration problem (together) in order to change that imbalance which I'm beginning to believe may not be something that can reach critical mass and a stable state in larger populations as historically peaceful revolutions were capable of.

As such, businesses are calling the shots economically, legislatively/governmentally, culturally, ... and their interests are falling further out of alignment with most peoples' well being.

We're becoming less innovative and working more to chase short-term profit margins for employers that keep us fed and sheltered instead of pursuing societal interests.

From your DOW example and the chemical industry, DOW and those they've acquired used to innovate. In their later years they've turned in an IP portfolio management business, focusing on strategic patent purchases to stiffle competitors and eek our royalties for certain processes.

This isnt unique to the chemical industry, it's happening across the board. In the neverending quarterly optimization search space, we're making tradeoffs that are hurting us more and more leading to instability in society all to inflate a few peoples' pockets and grips on control.

The labor market has always been a target but due to social ramifications, has been largely avoided. We're now seeing more aggressive attacks on optimizing costs in the labor market in order to meet growth expectations and it's really starting to press on people. I'm just wondering at which point enough people will crack or give up instead of continuing to support the madness.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more highly qualified you are the more at risk to offshoring your job is. A long time ago, Albany Molecular, a contract research organization, highlighted they were based in Albany, NY. A shithole, yes, but a shithole with cheap cost of living. Nowadays, the PhD jobs are based in Shanghai, Szeged and Hyderabad. The only thing that's left stateside is regulatory functions and support. You don't need a PhD for that…

Totally tangential: What makes Albany a shithole? It looks like an attractive town to me...

I am from Syracuse, NY and currently live and work in Rochester, NY - Albany is a straight shot drive along I-90 and has similar socioeconomic conditions.

Upstate suffers from high taxes and regulations introduced by the Governor with NYC in mind. Combine that with long winters and urban decay and we see that many bright young professionals born here end up fleeing once their parents retire.

I personally am planning on moving to Raleigh, NC in a few years. I only rent an apartment now so I'm mostly insulated from the astronomical property and school taxes, but I feel the state as a whole does not have my best interests in mind.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#245

I moved into sales partly as a hedge against this. It doesn't help much now as nobody is taking in-person meetings but I suspect (and hope) that companies will still prefer to hire account teams in close proximity to their customers.

This is an interesting angle.

Did you move from software development to sales?

Is this technical sales, "Sales engineer", or something different?

I'm curious how one transitions without any sales experience.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Asynchronous communication across timezones has not been solved, and I struggle to see how it would be. I disagree, at least if we are talking about what tools to use. But many people who are used to being face-to-face aren't used to async. Async communications require patience, foresight, and good writing skills. You need to envision the end result of the collaboration, provide as much of your perspective as possi…

Patience, foresight, and good writing skills don't solve the fundamental problem that a consensus in 3 days is less valuable than a consensus in 30 minutes. Any long sequence of consensus-based decisions becomes infeasible in the asynchronous model.

You may be trying to make all scenarios fit the same model. I did not mean to imply that. When you need quick answers, get on a video call and get real-time answers. When you don't, go async. Knowing when to use each method is again just a matter of learning communication skills.

As you improve, you'll also find that the urgency of decisions often isn't what it appears to be. That is where the patience comes in. If you truly constantly need consensus on problems within 30 minutes to prevent your business from crashing, then I'd suggest your organization may have deeper problems that need resolution.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#247

Real time, remote communication through tools like zoom, slack, and lucidchart (in my humble opinion) has been solved. It might take some getting used to, but in the right environment a group of properly motivated individuals can achieve the same productivity as their peers in a conference room. Asynchronous communication across timezones has not been solved, and I struggle to see how it would be. A lot of collaborat…

>I still think the Facebooks and Googles will pay a lot more - someone has to be the "top dog" attracting the top talent. The question is, how much more? They will pay more. But Facebook has already announced they'll readjust salaries to people who work from home in lower COL areas.

That’s not quite true. They said they’ll adjust salaries according to the “market rate” of the location they’re hiring in, which doesn’t always line up with cost of living.

This sucks for people living in London, for example, where developer salaries are low but the cost of living is high.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more highly qualified you are the more at risk to offshoring your job is. A long time ago, Albany Molecular, a contract research organization, highlighted they were based in Albany, NY. A shithole, yes, but a shithole with cheap cost of living. Nowadays, the PhD jobs are based in Shanghai, Szeged and Hyderabad. The only thing that's left stateside is regulatory functions and support. You don't need a PhD for that…

Totally tangential: What makes Albany a shithole? It looks like an attractive town to me...

It's not. It's a pretty typical smaller ("tier 2"?) city in the northeastern US, with several colleges and plenty of trees, parks, and museums. It's the seat of state government, and has quite a few really nice neighborhoods of old houses, as well as some classic brownstones, if you prefer that sort of thing. It's fairly diverse, and has good nightlife due to the large college-aged population (at least, it used to).

Unfortunately it is fashionable (among people who choose not to live in them) to talk about non "tier-1" cities as if they are "shitholes", but IMO the quality of life people experience is probably higher on average: less crowding, more open space, more housing, cleaner, less expensive.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#249
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> NYC is more of a real place and is probably less inflated, alot of the premium there is really about domain expertise. We'll see. I'm betting you're wrong - NYC has nothing on SF in tech expertise and the rest of the country (especially outside of the West coast) doesn't have much on it either.

If by tech expertise you mean knowledge of cloud and large scale web applications, then yes. For security though, and I'm sure this is true for other industries, the Bay Area has very little on the defense industry in Maryland.

Security is a small part of the overall tech industry. I live near Bethesda and I would hardly call the region a tech hub on par with any of the ones in the West coast.

Re: Remote work means anyone can take your job

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was at Intel, they had outsourced graphics driver development to Panang. Within a year they had created a large number of US jobs for folks who had to rebuild the work from Panang and validate/test/fix any new working coming back from Panang. There is a difference between a cheap foreign engineer without formal training and a trained domestic engineer. Anyone who thinks every type of labor can be outsourced to…

Fun fact, you can get good foreign engineers as good as any SF engineer but they also tend to be as costly as their US counterpart maybe slightly less do to lower living costs.

That's exactly my experience, the foreign talent on par with domestic talent costs about the same or close enough that outsourcing becomes much less attractive.
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