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Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

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Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#241

Post by simonsaidit »

conradev wrote: post #197
simonsaidit wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative would be GPS which some governments are looking at now. It might give higher precision with a grid of location data to enhance it, but I would assume the protocol prevents this eg by some randomization of ids?

GPS is completely unidirectional from satellites to receivers and thus the satellites cannot be used to track the receivers

What skuhn said. That is what the solution the Norwegian and Danish government is implementing is supposedly doing. Reporting the GPS data back to a central server. If you’re using iPhone.

https://www.simula.no/news/digital-contact-tracing-qa#How%20...?

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#242

Post by tastroder »

haoc wrote: post #144

Does this all depend on people's opt-in and self-report? What is the minimum opt-in percentage to keep the system functional?

That kind of depends, there is not a "this many or it fails / succeeds" number. I believe Figure 3 in https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/04/09/scie... suggests a minimum of about 60%

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#243

Post by est31 »

nkohari wrote: post #188
est31 wrote: post #178

https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/covid19/cu... > Upon a positive test of a user for COVID-19, their Diagnosis Keys and associated DayNumbers are uploaded to the Diagnosis Server. A Diagnosis Server is a server that aggregates the Diagnosis Keys from the users who tested positive and distributes them to all the user clients who are using contact tracing. Is this scalable? Earlier in the document they…

There wouldn't be 3 million new patients per day. Wouldn't each phone just need to download the newly-discovered cases since the last time they checked?

Each patient creates a new key per day. Only those keys are uploaded. So everyone who is positive in the app needs their keys to be uploaded. At least this would be a reasonable design choice of the app. Maybe the designers of the app assume you actually follow the quarantine that infected people should do and don't leave your home. In that case, the app can stop uploading of those daily keys.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#244

Post by anigbrowl »

crypt1d wrote: post #212

I've spent the last 3 weeks with my team building exactly this - contact tracing apps for both android and ios that use bluetooth tech[1]. This will probably require us to redo the app completely to fit into their API plans, but I'm glad they are, in a way, acknowledging our idea. The troubling thing is, bluetooth-based contact tracing is in no way easy. Different android phones handle background bluetooth scanning /…

Thanks for that. One path to greater longevity is to explore the idea of what else you could do with it besides contact tracing for disease that users might find useful. For example, what if users with a common interest had the ability to identify themselves to each other but not those who don't share that interest? If it's useful for something else besides coronavirus mitigation, you'll have the rare opportunity to reach almost everyone at once.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#245

Post by cbsks »

alyz wrote: post #203
DavideNL wrote: post #174

Am i the only one who thinks it's mindblowing that people use Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, etc. however now that Apple + Google release a tool to prevent thousands of people from dying in a pandemic they start thinking/complaining about the possible privacy implications? (without even having read the specs or knowing the details...)

This is dangerously close to Feinstein's "think of the children" argument. If people complain about EARN IT, they should investigate privacy implications of this "enhanced" tracking technology.

Yes, they should investigate. But they should investigate before reaching a conclusion.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#246

Post by mrkramer »

I'm worried about security implications of this technology.

First of all how reliable this technology will be since its results will or can be used in courts.

Secondly how contact tracing logs will be secured since they can be stolen or sniffed in a real time.

I didn't read technology documentation drafts and I used Bluetooth last time on old generation of phones way before smart phones and I'm interested for how long this tracing sessions will last since you can map devices that have turned on bluetooth in any given area(Tran stations,libraries etc.) You can do something similar to Wardriving (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wardriving).

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#247

Post by FabHK »

nkohari wrote: post #188
est31 wrote: post #178

https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/covid19/cu... > Upon a positive test of a user for COVID-19, their Diagnosis Keys and associated DayNumbers are uploaded to the Diagnosis Server. A Diagnosis Server is a server that aggregates the Diagnosis Keys from the users who tested positive and distributes them to all the user clients who are using contact tracing. Is this scalable? Earlier in the document they…

There wouldn't be 3 million new patients per day. Wouldn't each phone just need to download the newly-discovered cases since the last time they checked?

Say a newly identified case is assumed to have been infectious for the preceding week. My reading of the spec is that they’d upload 7 diagnosis keys (which all devices would have to download).

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#248

Post by anigbrowl »

blhack wrote: post #12

The interest in "privacy" around contact tracing seems like a ship that sailed a long time ago to me. Verizon etc all already have this data, and it isn't "private", and so does uber, lyft, and every other overly-aggressive-permission-askning-app that anybody has ever installed. Privacy is really important: but we lost it all a long long time ago. Maybe saying "well now we can do a good job of contact tracing" is at…

Since so many companies have it, why not take it back and make it a public commons?

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#249

Post by ceejayoz »

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #231
ceejayoz wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really doubt that. Hell, vast numbers of people have been doing it voluntarily already with loyalty cards.

I’m sorry, I might be misunderstanding how loyalty cards work... do they detect each other and report back to home with what other cards they have been in proximity to?

They're a scenario where people have willingly given away privacy to corporations in exchange for pretty minor benefits (largely, discounts that just bring the prices back to where they'd have originally been).

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#250

Post by zby »

FartyMcFarter wrote: post #116
jedberg wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already have the shiny button. They can compel cell phone companies to give this data to the government already, without you knowing about it. At least this way you will get some control of the info and you'll know what was collected and have control of it's disclosure (for now). In other words, this is no worse than what the government is already capable of, it just makes it easier for you to share the data wit…

> They can compel cell phone companies to give this data to the government already Bluetooth has a quite small range, which may give higher tracking precision (to anyone receiving the signal) than the data cell phone companies have.

There is also another idea floating - let the phones emit an ultrasound - then the other phone can estimate proximity, by the volume or delays.
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