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Jack Ma to send 500K coronavirus test kits, 1M face masks to US

thehill.com

241–250 of 283 posts

Re: Jack Ma to send 500K coronavirus test kits, 1M face masks to US

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are ignorant because you assume US tests and masks are vastly superior to Chinese tests and masks for this application. Masks, even perfect ones barely do anything for something that infectious and tests are more for statistics to inform high level decision making than anything else. Staying away from people is the only thing that measurably does anything.

> You are ignorant because you assume US tests and masks are vastly superior to Chinese tests and masks for this application. Nope. That is not what I said at all. Not even close. Stop making up stuff that someone never said. What I said, very clearly, is that the difference is in TRACEABILITY and, not directly but implied, adherence to REAL SPECIFICATIONS, PERFORMANCE AND QUALITY. The Chinese are FAMOUS for taking s…

>Which room do you go into?

Either room is preferable to Room 3: which is no one has any masks.

Or the Chinese made masks in Room 2 would be validated and inspected for compliance state side. Trust but verify etc. The logical scenario is traceable US made masks is triaged for medical workers while patients use Chinese made masks that's undergone some sort of due diligence.

But broadly, you're correct. Extra validation and QC should be emphasized now more than ever, China dramatically ramped up mask production by 10x normal capacity. Factory owners who do not typically make masks are spinning up production lines, raw materials is being sourced from everywhere. There's no doubt a lot of amateur hour happening which is why QC is extra critical with these batches that is at least good enough for Chinese frontline workers.

Unless the risk is China would deliberately send spiked masks via Ma, in which case, why not keep the masks in storage for later propaganda uses. Knowing how heated the rhetoric is going to become, this almost makes Ma's donation a bad move in retrospect. I'd hope the donation is traceable just for that possibility.

Re: Jack Ma to send 500K coronavirus test kits, 1M face masks to US

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's such amazingly american way of thinking. Like straight from cold war.

Is it? If the American government were doing this, I would think the exact same thing. And America has in fact done similar things many times in the past. Of course it's PR. It's always PR, probably regardless of what superpower's government is involved. The only difference here is that the Chinese government has more control over and knowledge of what private citizens are doing, so it can be difficult to disentangle…

Do you feel the same way about Bill Gates' philanthropic work?

Is what Gates does also "always PR"?

Both of these men could afford to retire to a private island (or chain of islands) and never be heard from again. You think they do what they do primarily for PR reasons?

Re: Jack Ma to send 500K coronavirus test kits, 1M face masks to US

#243
post #200
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because thats what matters to you? Were europeans sending aid to China a power move? It’s acceptable to send aid to each other, no matter who you appear to represent.

It absolutely is a power move. That's why when Cuba is struck with a hurricane, they reject American aid [1], despite being a relatively poor country who could obviously benefit from it. [1] https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=943791...

That only tells us that Cuba is inclined to view such offers as "power moves".

Is the Gates Foundation an organization devoted to making power moves around the world?

Re: Jack Ma to send 500K coronavirus test kits, 1M face masks to US

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's such amazingly american way of thinking. Like straight from cold war.

Is it? If the American government were doing this, I would think the exact same thing. And America has in fact done similar things many times in the past. Of course it's PR. It's always PR, probably regardless of what superpower's government is involved. The only difference here is that the Chinese government has more control over and knowledge of what private citizens are doing, so it can be difficult to disentangle…

This "us vs them" mentality with strong whiff of paranoia. Conceiving ulterior motive and talking as if that was the most important motive. Somehow more true than all other parallel motives. I don't see this kind of thinking much out of US and perhaps Russia. Maybe it's taint of cold war. Maybe it runs even deeper in the culture.

Re: Jack Ma to send 500K coronavirus test kits, 1M face masks to US

#245
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pls read what's known about this virus survivability outside of hosts body before you assume that item touched by infected person is "tainted" forever.

Look up my other comment. Research right now says 3 days.

Do you expect to wear any of the .5 million masks in less then 3 days after they were touched by the last person who touched them before packaging?

Re: Jack Ma to send 500K coronavirus test kits, 1M face masks to US

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are ignorant because you assume US tests and masks are vastly superior to Chinese tests and masks for this application. Masks, even perfect ones barely do anything for something that infectious and tests are more for statistics to inform high level decision making than anything else. Staying away from people is the only thing that measurably does anything.

As I put it in a reply to someone else's honest and intelligent question: Let's say these masks are going to protect our doctors. The risk is that garbage masks might not protect them at all. Very soon we lose entire hospitals because we used product without traceable and verified specifications and performance. How many patients die because hospitals go down due to junk masks? If, on the other hand, these masks are…

While your arguments have merit, it is notable that China is the country that has infection under control.

Re: Jack Ma to send 500K coronavirus test kits, 1M face masks to US

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are ignorant because you assume US tests and masks are vastly superior to Chinese tests and masks for this application. Masks, even perfect ones barely do anything for something that infectious and tests are more for statistics to inform high level decision making than anything else. Staying away from people is the only thing that measurably does anything.

As I put it in a reply to someone else's honest and intelligent question: Let's say these masks are going to protect our doctors. The risk is that garbage masks might not protect them at all. Very soon we lose entire hospitals because we used product without traceable and verified specifications and performance. How many patients die because hospitals go down due to junk masks? If, on the other hand, these masks are…

Even perfect mask in practice of intense contact with the infected is barely better than piece of cloth draped over your face.

Re: Jack Ma to send 500K coronavirus test kits, 1M face masks to US

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are ignorant because you assume US tests and masks are vastly superior to Chinese tests and masks for this application. Masks, even perfect ones barely do anything for something that infectious and tests are more for statistics to inform high level decision making than anything else. Staying away from people is the only thing that measurably does anything.

> You are ignorant because you assume US tests and masks are vastly superior to Chinese tests and masks for this application. Nope. That is not what I said at all. Not even close. Stop making up stuff that someone never said. What I said, very clearly, is that the difference is in TRACEABILITY and, not directly but implied, adherence to REAL SPECIFICATIONS, PERFORMANCE AND QUALITY. The Chinese are FAMOUS for taking s…

> What I said, very clearly, is that the difference is in TRACEABILITY and, not directly but implied, adherence to REAL SPECIFICATIONS, PERFORMANCE AND QUALITY.

What you don't seem to realize is that any such difference doesn't matter because "The goggles! They do nothing!"

This virus stays airborne for 3 hours after last infected breathed in any given room. Nothing short of full hazmat suit can significantly help. Piece of cloth over your face might reduce infection by 1% and most pristine N95 mask built to most amazing US quality reduces infection by 2%. Would the difference in mask quality really matter if those were the numbers?

When you have diarrhea does it matter if your toilet paper is tracable? You just need a lot of it. Not so much to efficiently help with the disease but mostly for comfort.

Re: Jack Ma to send 500K coronavirus test kits, 1M face masks to US

#249
post #58

One of the reasons the US developed its own test was that the test that China was using had a 48% false negative rate. These are probably the same tests.

Yeah. The one CDC developed was faulty as well. That's why China is doing multiple tests on patients. As well as doing CT scans widely. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-13/china-cor... US is just wasting time, period.

Yes, CDC flubbed the test, probably because theirs was a 3 part test. They also ordered that other labs wait for the CDC test instead of making their own. However, any test used had to pass FDA muster at that time, and a test with a 48% false negative rate likely would not.

The CDC is probably not the most agile organization, but I'm hoping that they will scale.

Re: Jack Ma to send 500K coronavirus test kits, 1M face masks to US

#250
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at it from the other angle. If you are to blame someone for doing XYZ I assume that you are sparkling clean. If however you are doing the same thing simply get lost. You have no moral right to blame someone for doing exactly the same thing you do. It is not "Classic Chinese / Soviet tactic (TM)". It is a friggin natural sense of justice that normal people possess.

In modern parlance, a respect for fairness and basic logical coherence is called "whataboutism".

Do as I say, not as I do. Hear hear.
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