Elon Musk’s plan to build one Starship a week and settle Mars • Hacker News Board

Re: Elon Musk’s plan to build one Starship a week and settle Mars

#241

Post by thouitsme » Thu, Mar 05, 2020, 6:19 PM UTC

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #236

justapassenger wrote: post #4

Is it me, or does this article basically romanticize abusing workers and glorifies running projects without a plan, just with a goal?

If you want to change history, you'll put up with a brutal working schedule. If you want a cushy 9-5 job, just apply to the nice big corporation down the street. At the end of the day, you just go home and enjoy your comfy bunny slippers.

If you want to change history for the better you will do the better for the people now. Putting up with brutal working schedule reminds me of the coal mines of England on industrial revolution, no coal mine owner or worker from that time comes to my mind now.

Re: Elon Musk’s plan to build one Starship a week and settle Mars

#242

Post by TuringNYC » Thu, Mar 05, 2020, 6:20 PM UTC

BigBubbleButt wrote: post #232

Tsarbomb wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iteration is what originally gave the Soviets the advantage in the space race.

I always found the dichotomy of Soviet culture interesting - that engineers were the most pragmatic I've ever seen, and the politicians were just...fucking idiots. The best example being Korolev, possibly the greatest rocket designer in history (certainly up there with Von Braun and Xuesen, and in my opinion more impressive), who died because he was sent to the Gulags by a bitter politician (this is an incredibly sho…

>> I always found the dichotomy of Soviet culture interesting - that engineers were the most pragmatic I've ever seen, and the politicians were just...fucking idiots.

I'm not familiar with that history, but I'm quite familiar with Corporate America. One thing I've seen is that when Engineering is great, it gives the company great momentum and allows the Management/"Business"/Strategy/etc functions to lag and get lazy. Good Engineering momentum essentially produces enough residual value for others to leech off from.

Re: Elon Musk’s plan to build one Starship a week and settle Mars

#243

Post by Florin_Andrei » Thu, Mar 05, 2020, 6:21 PM UTC

thouitsme wrote: post #241

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to change history, you'll put up with a brutal working schedule. If you want a cushy 9-5 job, just apply to the nice big corporation down the street. At the end of the day, you just go home and enjoy your comfy bunny slippers.

If you want to change history for the better you will do the better for the people now. Putting up with brutal working schedule reminds me of the coal mines of England on industrial revolution, no coal mine owner or worker from that time comes to my mind now.

Fine. It's bunny slippers, then.

Re: Elon Musk’s plan to build one Starship a week and settle Mars

#244

Post by aguyfromnb » Thu, Mar 05, 2020, 6:27 PM UTC

daxaxelrod wrote: post #110

aguyfromnb wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only reason why we have the prosperity that we have today is because inventive people built things that people like you said were not worth the time. Does it? Do you have some examples? As far as I can tell, societal progress moves slowly and incrementally, with many people contributing by building on the works of others.

Lightbulb, Automobiles, Printing press https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/87288/8-skeptical-early-...

>Automobiles

Automobiles were developed over hundreds of years. What was the skepticism there?

>Lightbulb

Edison "invented" the first commercial bulb in 1879. The first electric lights were created in the early 1800s.

>Printing press

People were trying to find ways to print books for centuries. Copying them was laborious. Some random monk claiming hand-writing to be morally superior doesn't change that.

Re: Elon Musk’s plan to build one Starship a week and settle Mars

#245

Post by immmmmm » Thu, Mar 05, 2020, 6:27 PM UTC

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #233

giantrobot wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't start from "scratch" on Mars with respect to mining or industry. Cavemen wearing mammoth pelts won't work on Mars. In order to simply survive people would need high levels of technology. Even the most basic living on Mars would need steel and glass and equipment to machine both. Making a steel or glass plate requires a lot of industrial capability and a capable supply chain to say nothing of raw materials.…

You're taking it too literally. No one is suggesting we wear mammoth pelts, only that our efforts will have to be gradual. If we want to survive as a race in the long long term, we have to start colonizing at some point. I just don't see why you're so pessimistic. Let these people go after their dream.

I am not pessimistic, I am a scientist that just read the literature. We have now extinction levels 1000-10000 higher than background, this more than previous mass extinctions and expected to go 10 fold worst in the next decades. Moreover we are just a few years to enter a truly non linear regime in the Earth climate dynamics. These are our life support systems on earth and they are about to fall. Swift global action on these points is therefore required for our short term survival.

These people propose solutions for the wealthy. They are BTW ruining my dream of seeing more stars than satellites in the sky. (I’m a material scientist, coatings won’t work)

Therefore I heavily disagree with you: short term survival requires protecting our life support systems here on earth, namely climate and biodiversity (the Earth-System).

I am also very disappointed that people use the word “colonisation” so often, a brief look at history support my doubts.

I don’t mind exploring the solar system when the above issues are fixed, but this has to be done in a scientific way, I.e. exploration, not for a blind colonialist purpose.

Re: Elon Musk’s plan to build one Starship a week and settle Mars

#246

Post by immmmmm » Thu, Mar 05, 2020, 6:29 PM UTC

giantrobot wrote: post #206

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) we are plain in the middle of a mass extinction event, expected to get much worst in a decade or two. Wouldn’t it be good to solve that first? I don't see why we can't do both. Maybe if you come up with an actionable plan you can start your own company like Elon and tackle that problem. 2) we need a 4th industrial revolution to survive global warming as a civilization. Wouldn’t be better to fix that first? (No, el…

You can't start from "scratch" on Mars with respect to mining or industry. Cavemen wearing mammoth pelts won't work on Mars. In order to simply survive people would need high levels of technology. Even the most basic living on Mars would need steel and glass and equipment to machine both. Making a steel or glass plate requires a lot of industrial capability and a capable supply chain to say nothing of raw materials.…

Agreed.

Just think of the “maintenance” problem. Equipments do fail eventually

Re: Elon Musk’s plan to build one Starship a week and settle Mars

#247

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x » Thu, Mar 05, 2020, 6:35 PM UTC

immmmmm wrote: post #245

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're taking it too literally. No one is suggesting we wear mammoth pelts, only that our efforts will have to be gradual. If we want to survive as a race in the long long term, we have to start colonizing at some point. I just don't see why you're so pessimistic. Let these people go after their dream.

I am not pessimistic, I am a scientist that just read the literature. We have now extinction levels 1000-10000 higher than background, this more than previous mass extinctions and expected to go 10 fold worst in the next decades. Moreover we are just a few years to enter a truly non linear regime in the Earth climate dynamics. These are our life support systems on earth and they are about to fall. Swift global action…

I see. Alright, I'll let you continue whatever it is you think you're doing. A lot of what you said is opinion and a lot of scientists would disagree with your assertions (which are in my eyes pessimistic)

I do believe in this goal though as do others, you should respect other people's dreams, especially when it doesn't detract from yours.

I didn't say this was for short-term survival. This is for long-term survival, we still need to and we are tackling our own planet. Elon himself has disrupted many industries that were contributing to the destruction of this planet (auto, oil & gas)

If you want to help the planet, go help it, don't neg others.

Re: Elon Musk’s plan to build one Starship a week and settle Mars

#248

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 05, 2020, 6:35 PM UTC

TuringNYC wrote: post #242

BigBubbleButt wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always found the dichotomy of Soviet culture interesting - that engineers were the most pragmatic I've ever seen, and the politicians were just...fucking idiots. The best example being Korolev, possibly the greatest rocket designer in history (certainly up there with Von Braun and Xuesen, and in my opinion more impressive), who died because he was sent to the Gulags by a bitter politician (this is an incredibly sho…

>> I always found the dichotomy of Soviet culture interesting - that engineers were the most pragmatic I've ever seen, and the politicians were just...fucking idiots. I'm not familiar with that history, but I'm quite familiar with Corporate America. One thing I've seen is that when Engineering is great, it gives the company great momentum and allows the Management/"Business"/Strategy/etc functions to lag and get lazy…

[deleted]

Re: Elon Musk’s plan to build one Starship a week and settle Mars

#249

Post by mrkstu » Thu, Mar 05, 2020, 6:36 PM UTC

TuringNYC wrote: post #242

BigBubbleButt wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always found the dichotomy of Soviet culture interesting - that engineers were the most pragmatic I've ever seen, and the politicians were just...fucking idiots. The best example being Korolev, possibly the greatest rocket designer in history (certainly up there with Von Braun and Xuesen, and in my opinion more impressive), who died because he was sent to the Gulags by a bitter politician (this is an incredibly sho…

>> I always found the dichotomy of Soviet culture interesting - that engineers were the most pragmatic I've ever seen, and the politicians were just...fucking idiots. I'm not familiar with that history, but I'm quite familiar with Corporate America. One thing I've seen is that when Engineering is great, it gives the company great momentum and allows the Management/"Business"/Strategy/etc functions to lag and get lazy…

Which may be an insight on how SpaceX/Tesla avoid some of those traditional business issues- the business is this case is a means to an engineering end, not a means to perpetuate the power/wealth/comfort of management.

Re: Elon Musk’s plan to build one Starship a week and settle Mars

#250

Post by floatrock » Thu, Mar 05, 2020, 6:36 PM UTC

peter_d_sherman wrote: post #2

Excerpt: "Just iterate, baby" "I’ve spoken with plenty of the earliest engineers who worked at SpaceX, and almost all of them have noted that Musk tackles the hardest engineering problems first. For Mars, there will be so many logistical things to make it all work, from power on the surface to scratching out a living to adapting to its extreme climate. But Musk believes that the initial, hardest step is building a re…

The quote that explains why it's important to build one Starship a week:

> “A high production rate solves many ills,” he said. “If you have a high production rate, you have a high iteration rate. For pretty much any technology whatsoever, the progress is a function of how many iterations do you have, and how much progress do you make between each iteration. If you have a high production rate then you have many iterations. You can make progress from one to the next.”