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UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

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Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#241

Post by legolas2412 »

hedora wrote: post #13
chrisseaton wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> United Auto Workers (the UC grad students’ union) Why are they represented by such a completely unrelated union?

There’s no clear path to replacing UAW. They somehow got in control of union representation for the entire UC system. The US is a closed shop country, so it is illegal for students to simply cancel their membership in UAW and join a graduate student workers union. I’m not familiar enough with labor law to know the exact proceedue, but presumably students would need to mount a state-wide campaign to vote UAW out (if i…

> The US is a closed shop country, so it is illegal for students to simply cancel their membership in UAW and join a graduate student workers union.

Wow, and there are people arguing that free market will solve it!

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#242

Post by jdm2212 »

kova12 wrote: post #233
wutbrodo wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I get that a lot of people on HN probably see the current low wages as a natural function of supply and demand in different academic disciplines. But heck, just looking at this from the point of view of the university, which is allocating resources to fight this, the calculus is odd. Note that I'm not making any _moral or normative claims_ about not striking vs striking vs wildcat striking, nor about the interplay…

Which just underlies the problem with unions: not only they are compulsory institutions that force you into their ranks whether you want it or not, but even those who join them don't get a fair representation and have to strike on their own.

Don't make the perfect the enemy of the good. A union-negotiated contract that's better than the one you'd get without the union is, well, better. It might not be "fair" or flawless, but it's still better.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#243

Post by late2part »

butterthebuddha wrote: post #4
nabla9 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simpsons grad student sketch is different kind of funny for different people. For most people it's funny because it's exaggeration, for others it's funny because it's so close to reality. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqrCoyVK80I --- On more serious note, grad student working for next to nothing serves similar function as unpaid internships in companies and politics. Some positions are designed to help young people…

> If you have trust fund, career in politics, academia or high profile law and financial firms is much easier. I'm having trouble parsing that

IF [ you have a trust fund ] THEN a career in {politics, acadamia, law, or finance} is much easier than getting a PhD.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#244

Post by cycrutchfield »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #237
saagarjha wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so now we have a complaint that she shouldn’t have tried to join the program with a child? I think we’re done here.

I only mentioned it as a major contributing factor to her having insufficient financial resources to complete the program. Plainly, she would be able to accept a cheaper housing situation if she did not have a child, and housing is her dominant expense. You yourself called that out, so I don't think it's out of bounds for me to mention it. What I'd really say is that a single, low-income parent-or-other-person-who-wo…

Don't even bother trying to continue the argument. You walked into their trap of mentioning the fact that there was a very important reason for why the sob story was a sob story. Now they imagine they have the moral upper hand and anything further you say must be incorrect due to your flawed character.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#245

Post by tnecniv »

hervature wrote: post #86
chrisseaton wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you don’t have to work for the university while you do your PhD if you don’t want to. I didn’t - I worked for a company instead. Maybe if the university had paid more I’d have worked for it instead.

PhD in Europe is different than in the US. There's is very little industry-academia support in terms of working while doing your PhD. From Princeton's policies, particularly the last sentence: "Graduate study at Princeton, at both the doctoral and, in most cases, the master’s level, requires full-time commitment to study and research on the part of students. The Graduate School’s financial support structure, which ex…

> However, all TA positions are deemed 20 hours of work. So you can't even work at the campus gym if you want.

This is not true at Princeton. Unless they are without funding, PhD students there commonly only work 10 hours per week (nominally) as TAs. The regular stipend is also generous compared to many other programs.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#246

Post by Thorrez »

thanatosmin wrote: post #225
Thorrez wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an undergrad Instructional Aide (aka IA aka TA) at the University of Michigan I taught labs/discussions as well as graded homeworks and exams.

Edited my comment. I'm pretty sure at UCSC TAs were also responsible for assigning the final grades in a course.

Hmm. Even if TAs don't assign grades for a course, if they refuse to grade the assignments that can make it extremely difficult for the professor to give the students accurate grades.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#247

Post by cycrutchfield »

rovr138 wrote: post #236
cycrutchfield wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody forced her to make these living arrangements that consume such a large percentage of her monthly salary. While it is regrettable, it's not the responsibility of the university to make sure that its students make good life choices.

We don’t know her life to say this wasn’t her best choice. Besides that, people with different backgrounds and life experiences bring different things to the table which is great for a research environment. If everyone came from the same background and experiences it wouldn’t be great for research.

Where did I say anything like that? I was just saying that $1700/month for rent is clearly above both the market rate for living with roommates, and above what she can reasonably afford given her salary.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#248

Post by legolas2412 »

oh_sigh wrote: post #193
asdff wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brainwashed by the fact that there isn't money in their account to pay their landlord?

Yet 750+ others in similar circumstances don't feel that way. I wonder if these 54 who striked were the poorest of the 800+ grad students?

Just the bravest. Probably americans too. International students are afraid of being kicked out and deported.

This country amazes me. They seem to be crazy for low skilled labor but want to kick out high skilled ones.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#249

Post by SolaceQuantum »

lobotryas wrote: post #229
asdff wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason why undergraduates are 'held hostage' is due the policies of the university. The reason why grades are not posted is due to the university. The reason why people aren't able to graduate is due to policies stipulated by the university. In most other universities, professors submit grades and are free to grade their own exams. TAs are there to just get through the stack of exams a little faster than the…

You wrote a lot but I am struggling to see your point. The TAs tried holding student grades hostage as leverage in their strike. Now some are withholding those grades for work they reviewed out of spite after being fired. They are hurting innocent students and potentially wrecking/derailing careers and lives. This latter part is a fact. The difference is that sone people here think this is an acceptable price to pay…

Systematically it sounds insane that the TAs are wholly responsible for grading but they don't get to teach the class, and they don't get paid enough to live. How can you expect a TA to grade appropriately if they are starving? I would blame management for shitty TAs resulting in shitty work, than the TAs for breaking under unlivable conditions.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#250

Post by AceyMan »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #212
saagarjha wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously telling this graduate student (with a child!) that she should find more roommates when she apparently has some already?

Nobody forced her to make these living arrangements that consume such a large percentage of her monthly salary. While it is regrettable, it's not the responsibility of the university to make sure that its students make good life choices.

Do some spot pricing of apartments on the Southern California coast and get back to us, m'kay?
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